Hallo Community!
Hier ist meine Situation: Zwei Personen lebten in einer 1,5-Zimmer-Wohnung (ca. 50 m²) und zahlten monatlich 416 EUR Nebenkosten pro Person (also insgesamt 832 EUR), einschließlich Heizung, Warmwasser, Gas und Strom , Versicherungen und Internet. Gestern hat mir mein Vermieter ein Dokument geschickt, dass ich für 2023 zusätzlich 1.723 EUR zahlen muss.
Ich bin mir sicher, dass wir nicht so viel Warmwasser oder Heizung verbraucht haben. Mein Vertrag enthält eine Klausel, die besagt:
Die Nebenkosten werden jährlich einmal durch die Vermieterin abgerechnet. Die Abrechnung erfolgt unverzüglich, sobald der Vermieterin die zur Abrechnung notwendigen Unterlagen vorliegen. Erhöhen sich die Nebenkosten, so ist die Vermieterin berechtigt, diese im Rahmen der gesetzlichen Vorschriften umzulegen und eine entsprechende Erhöhung der Vorauszahlungen zu verlangen.
Are these figures I’m being asked to pay even realistic? And is it legal to demand the entire amount at once?
Tut mir leid, wenn meine Fragen albern erscheinen. Ich bin kein Deutscher und leider war dies mein erster Mietvertrag. Für jeden Rat wäre ich dankbar!
https://i.redd.it/up82o6klqs5e1.jpeg
Von Racoonio666
24 Kommentare
I don’t know what is the situation in Germany, in Netherlands landlords pay gas and heating monthly in advance with a fixed number, for example 200 euro per month, and he will get the yearly bill from heating or gas company, and if you used gas or heating more than 200*12 euro, then the company will ask landlord to pay the extra cost, otherwise company will return some money back if you use less than 200*12. So I would recommend to get the bills from gas or heating company to check how much you used.
I think fixing of any parts of the building should not be paid by you (Sanierung regenleitung Hof).
Edit: operating costs, administrative costs, bank costs, why should you, as a renter, pay those? What’s the difference between operating costs and administrative costs??
mhh looks really shit, I would be annoyed too, it’s always worth having utility bills checked / The consumer advice centers in some federal states offer advice and checks of utility bills (**Die Verbraucherzentralen einiger Bundesländer bieten Beratungen und Prüfungen der Betriebskostenabrechnungen an)** , if everything is correct then he can request it, but you can Ask for a division so that you can pay for the whole thing in a few months
Edit
I’m also not so sure whether the repair costs can be passed on to the additional costs
The costs she is asking for isnt for heating, but for the costs to repair the rain pipes. She claims thar those repairs costed 110.000€, which sounds like complete bs. The splits those costs among all people renting at hers.
I doubt you can ask for the Renovation of a house from renters. Do you have any kind of Legal protection insurance? Are you a member of the Mieterschutzbund? I thibk you should ask for legal advice there.
It is legal to ask for all the money at once, if she is allowed to ask for that money, but I doubt that is the case….
That doesnt seem legit. Especially the 2x 50% „Sonderumlage“. Ask in r/wohnen or r/LegalAdviceGerman
Btw: over 400€/month for nebenkosten is way to much. Search for a mieterverein asap.
It seems like your landlord exchanged some rainpipes. Usually this requires a written information to you but no approval.
And yes he can make you pay for it partially but I‘m not sure if he can do it via the Nebenkostenabrechnung since this is some kind of renovation.
In my opinion the right way to do it would have been to increase the rent by 8% of the cost.
The large amount of costs are for renovations of the rainwater collection system. Not sure why that cost is imposed on you though.
They can’t charge you renovations for the house. That’s line 5a. Heating costs also wild.
Your landlord either doesn’t know how to do Nebenkosten Abrechnung or is purposely trying to milk money.
You can easily send them a message stating what umfähige kosten are, which are costs that can be passed on to the tenant. Nicht umfähige kosten are things that cannot be passed to the tenant.
If you need more clarification I’d be glad to help.
I am not 100% sure, but IMHO this looks wrong.
What you are looking at is an invoice your landlord got from their WEG (Wohneigentümergemeinschaft, simply put, an owners association).
Based on this invoice, your landlord is supposed to create your Nebenkostenabrechnung, but instead of doing this it seems he just passed down his invoice. He can’t do that, because not every item on this list can be passed down to you. One of the big parts (5. and 5.a) for example should not be on your bill, as far as I can tell.
I would recommend looking for a „Mieterhilfeverein“ near you (Tenant support association)
I’m no professional, but something doesn’t add up here. As a tenant you’re not responsible for paying for upkeep and renovations. Also they can’t let you pay for the Hausverwaltung either. The only points you’re responsible for are 1a, 1b and 3. This should add up to 3839.74€
Also NK of 832€ per month seems crazy high for a 1.5 room apartment.
How many flats in the building? All same size?
For what it’s worth i’m sorry, in my last flat I went through this terrible cycle also. It is pretty despicable.
do you know how much you pay for this: gas, electricity, insurance and internet ? Normally you have to get contract yourself and pay it yourself. Ask your landlord for bills for those utilities too because they are not listed in Nebenkosten.
In general if you have standard contract your Nebenkosten are ONLY the things that are handled by WEG. Other things, like electricity and internet you have to get contract yourself. So you can track how much you are using and how much you have to pay.
So ask your landlord for ALL invoices.
Here in nebenkosten abrechnung it says that there was very expensive renovation (110k) that is shared among all apartments. I don’t think you should pay for it. But i’m not a lawyer and I also never had to pay for something like this as a tenant. Maybe someone else has more knowledge about who should pay for it. All renovations are discussed during yearly meeting of all owners so it makes sense that owners should cover it.
There is a expensive point for repairing the rain water pipe. So you don’t have to think about your use of hot water or something else. This don’t cause the issue.
Everything is caused bei „Regenleitung“. But I’m not sure, if it is your responsibility to pay for this. In my opinion: No. Therefor I’m pretty optimistic that you could reject this „Nebenkostenabrechnung“ with legal support. You could search for legal advice at organizations like „Mieterverein“ or „Mieterschutzbund“
To my knowledge they can not just put something which is essentially a repair or even modernization (Sanierung Regenleitung Hof) on the Nebenkosten. Those cost are something they have to pay themselves (that is why you pay them rent). They are also not costs specific to a single year. Lets say they have to do that every 20 years it is completely unfair that this then has to paid by whoever happens to rent the apartment in that year.
It’s the reason you pay your rent so they can cover all building repairs from this income rather than impose it on you. It’s cheeky but check your contract. Also, always buy insurance incl. legal protection insurance. It would be easier for you as you would not care that much about it and communication through lawyers can work miracles and make your landlord lose all eagerness in charing you extra.
Mieterschutzbund and do NOT pay. Send a letter that you are having the Abrechnung checked as it is inconclusive. Ask for all proof regarding the drain pipe repairs. Go outside and check if they are made out of gold for that price.
Since some people are writing it wrong here and you haven’t quite understood it either.
The letter is from the property management/owners‘ meeting to your landlord. This is about payments that he has to make for the house as the owner of the condominium.
Apart from the chimney sweep costs(Schornsteinfeger), he has to pay everything out of his own pocket and you don’t have to pay anything. What you see here is not a utility bill for gas and water, for example.
Don’t pay anything and complain to the landlord.
If you like the apartment then try to negotiate it down to a 1000 euro increase max.
Remember, you as a buyer also have some leverage.
Alle Betriebskostenarten im Überblick:
https://mieterbund.de/app/uploads/2024/01/20230117-3.pdf
832eur Nebenkosten for a 50sq IMO is too much. I live in a neubau, in Mitte, 100sq and I pay 450 for Nebenkosten + 150 for electricity and 1gpbs internet.
You don’t have to pay for “Sanierung Regenleitung Hof” (5a).
Die Sanierung einer Regenwasserleitung ist in der Regel eine Instandhaltungsmaßnahme, deren Kosten nicht auf die Mieter umgelegt werden dürfen. Nur wenn die Maßnahme zu einer nachhaltigen Verbesserung führt und als Modernisierung einzustufen ist, kann eine Umlage der Kosten auf die Mieter erfolgen, wobei gesetzliche Vorgaben und Kappungsgrenzen zu beachten sind.
As far as I can tell, transferring the costs for the rain pipe over to you is only really allowed if you’re not being a renter, but you’ve either bought the apartment or in a „rent-buy“ (Mietkauf) contract, where you end up owning the apartment if you stay in there long enough.
There’s also a mention of a „TOP 7 v. 02.11.2023“, i.e. there was an owner’s meeting on 2023-11-02, and something was decided there.
This whole thing smells like you’re not a regular renter there. (And where the heck do you live that > 800 € Nebenkosten is normal?)
It looks like you’re being scammed in more ways than one.
Monthly Nebenkosten of 832€ for 50qm/a 1.5 room apartment? That would only potentially make sense if you were keeping your heater on 5 with the windows open and taking several long, hot showers per day afaik (though it looks like *Warmwasser* isn’t even included). I cannot imagine what kind of *Kaltmiete* you’re paying in that case.
Making you pay for *Verwaltungskosten* and *Sanierungskosten*? Only a max of 11% of renovation costs can be put on the renters, and *Instandhaltung* of the building isn’t included in that afaik.
Join a *Mieterverein* now. They can help you. Your landlord is required to give you a detailed accounting of all the costs, and the *Mieterverein* can provide you legal support if you need it.
Your landlord actually forwarded his yearly bill that he got from the property manager. That’s no proper Nebenkostenabrechnung.
These include several things, that have to be paid by the owner of the flat, not the tenant.
As a tenant you have to pay for all consumption based costs like water, heating and electricity, waste disposal, property taxes and public costs, and running costs of maintenance and upkeep.
This does not include the costs for the property manager, repairs and the upkeep savings.
So things that you don’t need to pay are Bankkosten, Verwaltungskosten, Sanierung Regenleitung Hof and Zuführung Erhaltungszulage.
What’s missing are the property taxes (which he gets directly from the municipality).
So basically ask your landlord for a proper Nebenkostenabrechnung, as this is not your bill to pay. It is merely information regarding certain costs that you might have to pay. Also regarding heating and water there should be a detailed bill listing the exact consumption and meter readings.