Wojciech Wiltold Jaruzelski und Lech Wałęsa
Das Ende einer alten Ära und der Beginn einer neuen.
Ich möchte wissen, wie die polnischen Geschichtserzählungen und die polnische Bevölkerung diese beiden Figuren sehen.
https://i.redd.it/j6qeis46646h1.jpeg
Von Witty_Pop425
22 Kommentare
kurwa, the pictures I used were high-definition images and high-definition materials that I edited, but Reddit just compressed them into a damn blurry image?
Buy a book.
You are welcome
Gdzie dwóch Polaków, tam trzy zdania
There is also another hero of Polish opposition – Ferdynand Kiepski. Search him up, he got a incredible history.
One was a communist to its core invoking martial law and behind killing of ordinary citizens and workers of shipyard and some key political figures i.e popieluszko, the other earned us independence, pushed collapse of the USSR and won peace prize…
Kind of hard to have a debate in the context
https://preview.redd.it/xrsd66ei746h1.jpeg?width=610&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ab1508b09d8841b6bb9ddbb1ab021bf81aaa02f6
So big meme potential
https://preview.redd.it/b224bh6j746h1.jpeg?width=424&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=52460a3185070954dbb2575a39c385e6f2d7cce7
Nawet w Polsce zdania na temat tych 2 postaci są podzielone 50/50.
The guy on the right most likely worked for the guy on the left and got many people imprisoned, beaten or killed. Hope that helps.
On half would say Wałęsa is a hero, the other half – that he’s a traitor. The third half is holding back from voting. Neither of them aren’t right.
90% of the people consider Jaruzelski to be a traitor
40% of the people consider Wałęsa to be a traitor
Poles see these guys in every possible way xD
I haven’t met anyone yet who had a good opinion on Jaruzelski. Though he’s not as disliked as he should be given that he essentially installed a junta in Poland.
As for Wałęsa, it’s 50/50 depending on which party someone votes. Right wing accuses him (and liberals) of making backroom deal with communists (it’s partially true).
Personally, Wałęsa wasn’t fit for job as a president and thus had to rely on shady people to guide him. And it didn’t seem like he had a vision for a country.
For me, Lech Wałęsa was a symbol for a new era, but at that his role should have ended. Back room deals and their constant denial. Should he retired from political/public life after being president more people would have positive outlook on him, but as he is still trying to shine to this day and is willing tool for current politicians just for some publicity (at least in my personal opinion) leaves a bad taste. Die a hero or live long to become villain.
https://youtu.be/yIKCeLuKsWA?is=Alq6C33tVAYfuTDs
Z bolszewicką szczerością
a commie and a douchebag commie that was pretending to be fighting with commies, the rest doesn’t really matter and is just noise for pleb.
The only thing they established was to secure the commies‘ estates and not uncover their stuff, so there wouldn’t be any decommunization and we simply moved on from PRL to PL.
Because of that, we now have commies playing „new Left“ and still keeping their interests safe from prying eyes.
Jaruzelski was deplorable, cowardly servant to USSR. Not formally incompetent, but having a specific outlook people rightfully hate him for. His priority was „not angering Moscow“. Which was not a bad strategy at the time, but at what cost, and how sensitive did he really have to be about it? Joining military actions against protests in neighboring countries, shooting at the miners, years of martial law, brutal conduct against other local protesters, putting large amount of people in prisons, establishing an absurdly extensive network of snitches, making the economy the worst in decades, where affording sugar was difficult? All of that „not to anger Moscow“. I see it as a poor judgement, perhaps supported by his own panic fesr, rather than personal monstrosity. The sources indicate that he believed that he is preventing something even worse. But the system he shaped was horrible.
And Wałęsa was just an idiot. Manipulated into his role during worker protests. Put in the leadership place rather than getting there based on charisma. Elected as president because he was a symbol rather than because of his merit. Very harmful with his incompetence, especially as it came to diplomacy, spreading ideas like „NATO bis“ back then. Confidently NOT reelected. Reduced to a meme – a fitting position for him.
Basically my family don’t like Wałęsa and Solidarność. Polish people think Wałęsa was a communist agent anyway. I am too young. When asked my mom about that under Gen Jaruzelski every phone call was monitored, she replied that at least then she knew who was listening, and now we don’t know (Google and stuff)
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Wałęsa is defended for political reasons. But in Poland there are no longer any historians who believe that he was not an agent. What is more, it is said that even during the famous shipyard strikes, he was delivered there by the Security Service. Come on, let’s not kid ourselves. In a totalitarian country, the leader of the opposition won a nationwide lottery few times? It’s absurd. Of course he collaborated with the communists. The arrangement was simple: the communists agreed to hand over power, but they took companies, well-paid positions, and would never be convicted by the courts. After all, after 1989 for example all the bank directors were former special-service employees.
Based commie and slightly less based commie.
Czysty Ziobro😁