Ich bin 25 und komme aus Indien. Um es kurz zu machen: Ich hatte auf der traditionellen Route große Probleme. Ich habe mich für die medizinische Aufnahmeprüfung beworben und bin durchgefallen. Ich habe meinen 3-jährigen Bachelor in Philosophie und Wirtschaftswissenschaften in 5 Jahren abgeschlossen 🥲.
Ich habe ADHS und habe Schwierigkeiten beim Sitzen und Arbeiten. Aber das Einzige, was ich mag, ist Kochen. Ich mag es, mit meinen Händen zu arbeiten, und es war ein Traum von mir, eine Kochschule zu besuchen, aber aus finanziellen Gründen und weil meine Eltern dies nicht unterstützten, war es mir nicht möglich. Ich habe ein paar Bilder angehängt, um zu zeigen, dass ich mich wirklich für das Kochen interessiere 🫠
Mein ursprünglicher Plan war also, den Master in Deutschland zu machen. Aber ehrlich gesagt weiß ich nicht, was ich mit Philosophie-Mastern machen kann. Und während ich recherchierte, erfuhr ich von einer Ausbildung, die ehrlich gesagt eine sehr gute Gelegenheit zu sein scheint, wenn man bedenkt, dass ich lernen und kochen darf und dafür bezahlt werde. Ich meine, das ist cool. Ich denke also ernsthaft darüber nach, dies zu tun und bewerbe mich für die Ausbildung zum Koch/Konditor.
Ich mache mir also nur über ein paar Dinge Sorgen, bevor ich ein Jahr in das Erlernen der deutschen Sprache auf B2 investiere.
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Ist das für einen indischen Staatsbürger möglich? Gibt es eine echte Nachfrage? Unterstützen oder akzeptieren Restaurants und Bäckereien Nicht-EU-Bürger?
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Koch vs. Konditor? Was ist besser? Mir geht es mit jedem von ihnen gut.
Ich bin durchaus bereit, die harte Arbeit, den Schweiß und die langen Stunden zu investieren, die die kulinarische Welt mit sich bringt, aber ich möchte sicherstellen, dass ich angesichts meiner Nationalität und meines Alters keinen unmöglichen Traum verfolge.
Ich würde gerne von jedem hören, der eine kulinarische Ausbildung gemacht hat, von Arbeitgebern in Deutschland oder von anderen Nicht-EU-Expats, die einen ähnlichen Sprung gemacht haben.
Vielen Dank im Voraus für Ihre Zeit und Einblicke!
https://www.reddit.com/gallery/1to0fl7
Von Delay_Lama_
28 Kommentare
If you like cocaine. Yes
Work in a kitchen for 2 weeks before you decide. It’s not an easy job.
Yes, go ahead
Dont bother with konditor, if any of the two go for koch
You said youre willing to put up with stress and long hours. Youre underestimating it. Multiply it by 3 and then ask yourself if youre still willing and able to do it
Just know that the working hours are shit, salary unless youre head of kitchen are bad, its really stressful, most of your coworkers are gonna be on coke or alcohol.
After working in the restaurant industry full time for a decade, imho no its not worth it
My gf has an office job, flexible hours, homeoffice almost every day, crazy benefits and she earns almost twice as much as i do. Meanwhile i have more experience in my field than she has in hers.
Go for sth like that instead
Uff, tbh I don’t think it’s worth it.
Ausbildung in Germany is very low paid, you won’t be able to afford life here if you don’t have additional support/funds.
Technically you could apply for a visa if you get a contract, but why would any German restaurant/hotel hire someone from India (I assume you don’t live in Germany already) when they could technically hire someone here?
Having said that, there is little demand for jobs like that, when you are done with the Ausbildung your salary as a chef will stay low as well (a bit over minimum wage).
Just for reference, your salary (before tax, during your Ausbildung l) will be around 800€/month which would be around 720€ net. From that you need to be able to rent a room (in a city it would around 500€ minimum, maybe higher) plus you need to eat as well (250-300€), pay for public transport or car (50-60€).
I saw that you wanted to do medicine. May I ask if you have considered doing maybe something like Notfallsanitäter? It’s the highest non physician qualification in emergency response. Plus you might use it to get into medical school later on. On top of that people with ADHD tend to do well in stressful situations (like emergency care). Just a thought that popped into my head. But like others said: try something that’s fun for you. Best of luck to you!
Just my pov:
I was actively working full time as a chef for 19 years… i always thought, chefs are not born, they’re made. If you are willing to sacrifice your private life over compassion for your job, this might be for you. I rarely encountered people that really thrived in the job and i barely could identify with them.
Another thing that became very clear when i stopped working in a kitchen; my compassion to prep an amazing meal for me and my friends came back, that was never really the case when i actively worked as a chef, best case was frozen pizza after a 16 hour shift or take out.
Try and work in a kitchen for a month and see how it is, back to back, that might help with your decision.
Good luck my dude
Edit: as other people said already, be aware that the everyday work in a kitchen might destroy the passion you have for the art of cooking itself. It was like that for me, i still made amazing meals but it just felt like a shore…
Would check first if this would destroy your passion for it. Bad pay and insane hours.
I work at a high-end steakhouse here. Our cake guy has an ausbildung. He makes minimum wage.
Do with that information as you will
1. Learn the language at B2 Level, better C1.
2. Search for a „Ausbildungsstelle“ as Koch, Bäcker oder Konditor.
Good luck
Try applying for the job directly as commis. Usually you’ll be invited for a probe arbeit. And if you’re good enough to follow instructions that day, do eziest stuff there are without mistakes, you’ll get a job. It’s way better payed than Ausbildung. I had a lot of young people coming fresh from the school, they didn’t learn anything there. Usually anyone that do it as a hobby and watch a lot cooking videos online knows much more than them. You don’t need a school to be a cook, if you see it’s for you than you can do it afterwards if you wanna chase Meister Chef and became Ausbilder. Sommer is coming and everyone is looking for cooks. Take your shot, don’t be scared. As for a long hours and stress… There are places that will drain living soul out of you, on the other hand there’s really good and structured restaurants where you don’t kill yourself from work, and you have regular days off, 30 days vacation and so on. You just need to find one that suits you and you’ll be just fine if you love this job. I felt in love first time I walked in in a professional kitchen and since then love didn’t stop.
There is quite some demand for people who want to learn „Koch“. And if you are into it, go for it! But it’s not an easy job (and not an easy Ausbildung either).
– During Ausbildung you earn money, yes, but if you work in a big city it won’t be easy to get along, because rents are high and living isn’t cheap here. And after Ausbildung the pay isn’t great either (if you’re not a chef in a big restaurant).
– You will have to do a lot of repeating and tedious work. My cousin learned cook and she dreaded „mushroom season“. If her boss put out the signs for „Frische Pfifferlinge“ („fresh chanterelles“) she knew that it was her job to stand in the kitchen for hours to clean and dress the mushrooms.
– It’s quite stressful and loud, and the tone of communication is harsh. Are you good at working under pressure?
There is no such thing as „sponsoring“ a visa in Germany. If you can secure a spot at a company as an „Auszubildender“ in an occupation where there is a shortage of applicants then you can apply for a visa, you don’t need any sponsoring.
As for Konditor: There is no shortage of applicants. On the contrary, it’s quite a popular „Ausbildung“ and there are only a few spots, because there simply aren’t that many independent bakeries and confectioneries left that train apprentices themselves or are able to do so. A lot of people dream of opening their very own confectionery.
Edit to add: Your dishes look very yummy!
Bakeries have trouble finding people for the Ausbildung because you have to get up very very early. Maybe consider applying for an Ausbildung there? 🙂 Good luck!
As u/Outside-Clue7220 says: work a few weeks before you decide.
Professional culinary careers are not „hey, I know how to make this“ but „hey, I can make this at volume based on steps that are broken down and standardized to the n-th degree, under much pressure and with many wrenches in my giddy-up.“
So, first, yes, it’s possible, but the sponsorship will be hard. See [https://www.make-it-in-germany.com/de/visum-aufenthalt/arten/berufsausbildung](https://www.make-it-in-germany.com/de/visum-aufenthalt/arten/berufsausbildung) for what you need. Your boss will genuinely haven to want you. DEHOGA might be able to help you find one.
Secondly, the biggest stopgaps are speaking German (Kitchens speak German as the overarching language, except for some restaurants that only hire within their own family and friends), and finding a place to live that can be paid for with an apprentice’s income. Working in a hotel kitchen might be the way there, especially the international brands (4 Seasons, etc.) that frequently have apprentices from other country sisters and have to put them up.
Have you thought about studying hotel management? I’m not from India but a neighbor country. An acquaintance of mine, who loves to cook (and I have to say, she is extremely good at it, she makes the best Alfredo pasta I have ever eaten) chose studying hospitality management because „cook“ isn’t exactly a high powered job. She then did some additional diplomas etc and and now works for a five star chain as some sort of head of kitchen or something, I’m not sure about the exact title though. All I know is that she gets posted in a lot of international locations. You can also look for a masters in hospitality management in Germany. UK is also probably a good immigration destination for you, although IDK about how to go about it practically, you have to do your research.
Maybe also post it on r/findapath
If you like cooking and baking and would like to have an „Ausbildung“ with more emphasis on practical stuff, you could consider a „technical assistant“ job. There are chemical/medicinal/pharmaceutical/biological TAs and lab work is not that different from kitchen work in a way (I’m currently doing my M.Sc. in organic chemistry).
You’ll probably have better pay and better working conditions there, although the whole industry is in a bad state right now and it might get worse in the following years.
Seems you found something you like to so. Honestly it feels more of a hobby to me.
I see your comments about German laws and holidays and so on. Not sure they are applied for restaurants. I learnt after a few interactions that it is a very competitive business.
But just in case, did you have any experience in baking in India? May I suggest try that first. Because it is really hard work. What is to say that you won’t be able to cope up with that. Give it a try for a couple months.
Don’t go in the kitchen especially not after corona. Salaries way to less for the pressure you have to hold out. The working times and capitalism what will led you into depression and addiction if you’re lucky just one at the same time. I know way to many cooks who did way to many drugs while working.
Koch.
If you a passion for it, and are good, you will be able to pick up baking to a good standard. If you are still interested in baking etc, switch to patisserie in the kitchen.
I was told to a Konditor Ausbildung by my school whilst studying for my Koch Ausbildung. My Executive Chef advised against it and he was correct. I no longer cook professionally and I mainly bake at home.
After a good apprenticeship, you should good basics in baking, butchery and cooking. A Konditor Ausbildung will cover less.
I worked in gastronomy for 10 years (not a koch, just helper), but I’ve so far not met a koch that didn’t regret learning to be a koch.
It is often an ungrateful, stressful job where your own culinary skills might not even be allowed to properly shine, and you work long hours until (mostly) 21-22 in the evening.
Also if you love cooking, this job will make you hate it.
Your food looks delicious btw. 😋
There is demand, hospitality is one of the few fields with a worker shortage. That also means that they will work you to the bone.
If Koch or Konditor is better depends on what you want to do. Koch means preparing full meals and menus while Konditor focuses on pastries. Both are high stress jobs, but it’s significantly harder to find a job as Konditor because a lot of their work is getting replaced by ready made, so the only few places you could work are some of the few remaining pastry focused bakeries or upper class and Michelin star kitchens.
Maybe try to work in India first while you learn German and try to get into a top tier restaurant to see how you like working in a serious environment vs. doing it as a hobby.
Working as a cook or baker different very much from what you do at home. No only the quanity of ingrediences, but also the organisation.
Working in a restaurant requires a lot of planing for several dishes at the SAME time. Meat, potatoes and vegetables need to be on point at the SAME time and still be hot. The tone in a professional kitchen oft rough, you need to stressresistance and the empathy to forgive euch other after being yelled at.
My wife is a Konditorin.
She loves her job, is really good at it and she also likes her employer (which is definitely not the norm).
But she would never be able to afford her own place without my additional income.
The harsh truth is that people in the restaurant industry earn very little, have terrible working hours, and do a thankless, exhausting job.
If you specialize (wedding cakes for example), earn your master’s certificate, or invest a lot, you MIGHT be able to make it.
yes, there’s a demand and i know some non-eu guy (uk) who is now working in germany (I don’t know the details however). but it’s a very stressful and demanding job.
Koch actually has the lowest life expectancy last time I checked, while Konditor is extremely niche. Koch will always be stressful, while Konditor can be more chill. If you find a place to do the latter, I suggest making sure they can take you in after you completed your Ausbildung, because there are not many jobs left that actually hire Konditors. Most bakeries unfortunately are chain stores with only the central distribution hub doing some real baking, *maybe*.
Your age only matters if it matters to the employer, which it often won’t. In fact, Quereinsteiger are very normal in our field. There are many restaurants and hotels that would want to hire you, if they think you can do the job. The entire industry runs on migrant labour. Do your research, though. There are many bad employers.
Konditor is a dead end for most people. Koch is awesome itself, but one of the most exhausting jobs in Germany and poorly paid in most places. My girlfriend worked for a 4 star hotel in Berlin and they exploited their staff to the max, while paying slighly above minimum wage (except for the Chef Koch). Sometimes it was 40°C in the kitchen and my girlfriend got home looking like a lobster coming out of a boiling pot.
Yes and drugs are a thing, half of the class at my girlfriends Berufsschule took cocaine and other hard drugs.
I used to think I need to make my hobby my job. But then it ruined my hobby for me because I had to do it.
Though maybe that’s just a me problem.
I worked as a cook at a restaurant for a short while (without an Ausbildung). The advent of delivery apps during the Pandemic only aggravated problems inherent to the restaurant industry.
While cooking is a very active profession, it’s extremely repetitive. On most days that I worked a morning/ double shift, the first few hours were just spent prepping the exact same ingredients every day. If you intend to come into cooking from the creative side, you might be very disappointed.
However, if you’re just looking for stable employment, I have heard that working at places like hospitals/retirement homes or the Heißtheke at supermarkets like REWE can be a lot better in terms of stress levels and pay.