Ich muss über ein Thema schimpfen, das schon oft auftaucht, aber das regt mich wirklich sehr auf.
Als jemand, der in der Nähe des Obersees aufgewachsen ist, habe ich ehrlich gesagt den verzweifelten Wunsch verspürt, auch hier zu bleiben. Aber innerhalb von buchstäblich EINEM Jahr scheinen die Mieten um durchschnittlich 500 CHF gestiegen zu sein, und ich verstehe wirklich nicht, wie sich SO viele Menschen diese Wohnungen noch leisten können.
Was mich nervt, ist, dass bei der Diskussion über die wahnsinnigen Schweizer Immobilienpreise immer nur die Stadt Zürich oder Zug im Gespräch ist. Mittlerweile gerät auch buchstäblich jede Stadt, die auch nur annähernd in der Nähe meines Geburtsortes liegt, zunehmend außer Reichweite. Lachen, Pfäffikon, Wollerau, Altendorf usw. beginnen alle, völlig absurde Ausmaße zu erreichen.
Und das, obwohl sie in einem Haushalt mit doppeltem Ingenieureinkommen leben. Man könnte meinen, dass man es sich mit stabilen Karrieren, einer guten Ausbildung und vielen Jobmöglichkeiten tatsächlich leisten könnte, in der Region zu leben, in der man aufgewachsen ist, zumal gute Verbindungen nach Zürich für so viele Berufe wichtig sind, die keine lächerlichen Finanzgehälter zahlen. Auch Ingenieure, Architekten, Krankenschwestern, Lehrer, Mitarbeiter im Gesundheitswesen usw. müssen pendeln.
Im Ernst, was machen all diese Leute beruflich? Weil ich wirklich das Gefühl habe, dass ich bei meiner Berufswahl irgendwie völlig danebengegangen bin, wenn selbst das Ingenieurwesen nicht mehr ausreicht, um in der Gegend, in der ich aufgewachsen bin, bequem zu wohnen.
Und das Verrückteste daran ist, dass einige dieser neuen Entwicklungen buchstäblich an die New Yorker Preise herankommen. Für eine 2,5-Zimmer-Wohnung in Lachen sprechen wir von knapp 4.000 CHF/Monat. Ab wann ergibt das keinen Sinn mehr?
https://i.redd.it/kg0ji3fxfm2h1.jpeg
Von Ok-Anybody-380
36 Kommentare
Expats?
Expats.
Expats. Even in Siebnen and Schübelbach the rents are going crazy
Expats earning 100k or more. They often come from places where spending 50% of their salary on rent is normal.
Everyone blaming expats. Who are the landlords? Swiss.
I shared a [news article](https://www.reddit.com/r/Switzerland/s/yg1C7C9wxW) the other day pointing to that same issue in Nyon. Users were quick to negate the issue. According to them you just need to find a studio appartement or live in Uri. Hope you’re ready for the countryside lifestyle.
Edit: thanks guys for proving my points with your comments.
If I’m spending 1/3 of my salary for a 2k/month apartment then someone earning ~156k/year ( or even a double income couple) can easily rent that apartment.
They would be basically spending less on rent than I would compared to the salaries.
I think Lachen, Wollerau etc. have great tax rates, because its Schwyz and not ZH anymore (while still being close to ZH). So its very attractive to high earners?
Lack of regulation. Capitalism at its best (or worst)
Lots of salty people complaining about expats instead of their own life choices/lack of skills/education 😂
That’s a good question. I took a 5.5 room apartment back in 2012 for about 3600 right across from the Zurichsee. I can’t imagine what it would go for now.
People who are making quite a lot of money and want low tax rates. For someone working in Big tech in Zurich, this might be a cost effective solution
The impression is that immogrants pay these rents easily, right? But that’s a weird one as well. I mean… it‘s not that _all_ of them are paid more. Why should Swiss employers pay immogrants more than other people? There‘s absolutely no economic reason for doing so – more like the contrary, but that’s another story.
Many have an average swiss joe salary, just like everyone else. Both work, kids go to hort full time. Hort‘s not so expensive anymore, so I guess that with double income they simply have to pay these prices.
Local born people, like me, then see these rents explode over the past 20 years and see our disposable income go down, as the wages don‘t keep up. And then people start thinking that all immigrants must earn more than we do – and I don‘t think so (of course some do, but many also don’t).
Now I guess their economics work differently: pension 3A? Emergency savings much much lower, big cars, high rents but after all from paycheck to paycheck.
This is what I believe.
The right is only building luxury apartments nobody can afford and blaming the rent increase on immigration.
Those immigrants that apparently are lowering the wages for the whole country.
Schrodinger’s immigrants lower salaries for the Swiss and increase their rents too
So many blaming expats/immigrants but it’s the job and salary that defines what you can afford and where you prioritize living. It’s not like foreigners are paid better. Those lucrative expat jobs where someone is sent from abroad to an all-expenses paid position are far far far from the norm.
My job is full of swiss and non-swiss and we’re all in the same boat, decent salary but huge rent prices to deal with. You have to live somewhere, so it’s not like anyone is happy to pay such rent for a modest apartment.
Most surprising to me is engineers are not bringing home at least CHF 6,000/month…
If your tax difference between e.g. Horgen and Pfäffikon is greater than your rent difference it’s a no brainer to pay the higher rent and still come out ahead. There are enough people in the Zürich area that fall into that bracket.
St. Gallen and Glarus are pretty nearby and won’t have that issue. If Schwyz tax policy doesn’t change I see no chance of this situation changing
This is life
People who can afford it …….
You only need to make 140.000 CHF to qualify for this apartment on a single income?
Many expats make more than this.
To be fair this one is much more expensive than usual: there are several 4.5-5.5 apartments for this price available right now, and 2.5-3.5 are usually 2k and even less if they are not „exclusive“
At the moment nobody.
I was wondering how real estate is still booming on this level, while the job market is really bad. Even in finance and tech.
I heard a lot of high net worth individuals are moving to low tax Swiss municipalities from the Arabic peninsula since the Iran conflict broke out.
With a double Engineer income, you should be able to afford that easily. But I guess you’re smart and wont spend so much on an apartment. Good for you!
While a lot of people say ‚immigrants‘ or similar, I’d say this is interesting for anyone making 150k+ and working in Zurich. Due to taxes, yet still being close enough to Zurich and overall a bit more chill.
One thing I noticed though is that swiss people i know, tend to just stay conveniently close to their workplace or social circle. Tax optimization by moving is rarely a consideration unless there’s big life events (buying a home, raising a family, etc).
A friend of mine with >200k CHF annual salary is renting a place like this (Horgen, right next to the lake). 4.2k CHF per month for rent…
I feel you and I will share the explanations given to me when I’ve asked the very same specific questions as you.
Apparently many 2 people households in the Zurich region bring in easily 350-500K a year . It’s like a silent majority. So they can afford the flat you’ve mentioned.
Who are these people? And what are their jobs ? I don’t know but apparently there’s a lot of them.
The specific communes you’ve mentioned attract the people above and of course the wealthier folks.
I’ve spoke to 2 locals from that area who are very sad that their children can never buy and live next to them and where they grew up because they can never afford it. And that is very sad. An unfortunate reality.
But as I’ve been repeatedly told
People have alot of money
A lot of people have very very high paying jobs
They don’t work…
Aside from the price, why should 92 square metres be carved into only 2.5 rooms? What is the point of that design? A bedroom plus a dance hall?
Yeah, it‘s all by choice of the people who have the asset in demand aka the leverage. As some other user mentioned. In Munich the prices are insanely related to the average income (real estate prices close to Zürich but only 1/3 of the income level) because huge areas are owned by big corp and private families who are just patiently watching the prices skyrocket. They won‘t sell anything so new units can be built and neither they won‘t negotiate about affordable renting.
And the best thing: German government excluded owners of more than 300 units (flats, houses) from inheritance tax.
So yeah, everything by lobbying and choice. No market involved.
Edit: typo.
Reasonable for 95²m. Nothing special tbh.
It is a luxury top floor apartment with a lake view. Of course it is going to be expensive.
Here I am thinking that isn’t so bad of a rent for a place like that 🤷🏼♀️
You and my husband and I meet the demographic. Double corporate income household.
But yeah, it’s an issue – we will never be able to save enough to buy a house here & I’ve been laid off a lot lately / my industry has become super tough. We are actually moving to the countryside to pay 1000 CHF less than we do with a bigger more house like apartment.
> And this is despite being in a dual engineering income household. You’d think that with stable careers, good education, and plenty of job opportunities, you could actually afford to live in the region you grew up in [..]
You don’t earn a house in Switzerland, you inherit one. Even working people will very often use an „Erbvorbezug“ for their down payment. Nepotism is a direct consequence of having low inheritance tax.