I remember when boris wanted to push this and people were rightfully calling out how horrid and vile it was to use trans people as a weapon, labour is now doing the exact same thing and those people are quiet.
I cant wait to leave this country for good, truly nothing good can happen anymore
jennifersaurus on
And in doing so secures labour the legacy being the worst government for LGBT rights in 30 years. Possibly ever, as it is such a backslide on rights.
A truly truly shameful situation that the UK is in.
Ver_Void on
Just for some context not that long ago red state governers in the US were vetoing stuff like this because it was too far/ unpopular and trans people haven’t changed in those years, but we’ve seen a concerted effort to demonize them and drum up support for exclusion. Propaganda does work and it worked on a lot of us
Now labour is apparently quite happy with the verdict that the Equality Act they introduced has supposed to act as a bathroom ban since 2010. I am so ashamed to live in this country and to be part of an NHS that will absolutely cause harm and lead to deaths putting this policy into practice.
lasthopel on
Key reminder the government could just override that stupid judgement by stating thr equality act definition of covers sex and gender, but they wont, now uk is hopefully going back to the ECHR to get its ass beat again like it was in 2002
Also dont forget under the ruling the court created a legal definition of gay and lesbian, as in, if you are a gay women 100% gay only ever dated women, but you happen to date a trans women, even if she is post op fully surgery and everything, under the ruling youre not gay
simanthropy on
Does this mean we are legally allowed to stand outside female toilets and get everyone coming in to show us their fanny before letting them in?
Also what does “banning” even mean? As far as I’m aware, as a cis man, even I’m not “banned” from female toilets, it’s just a social norm is it not?
PoggleRebecca on
No evidence this was ever necessary outside of extreme anti-LGBT ideology and crooked legal proceedings. The British government seems to find it impossible to just leave innocent minorities alone.
limeflavoured on
This will put a target on any woman who doesn’t look classically feminine, and will end in violence and murder, statistically probably of cis women.
Prisoner3000 on
How is this going to be enforced? Genital inspections at each women’s toilets?
smity31 on
Its incredible how far this government have been willing to remove rights from trans people based on nothing but fears and perceptions. Its just such ridiculous policy making that is literally Boris Johnson levels of stupid.
This will not only not make bathrooms safer, it will make places less safe for both trans people and cis women. It reinforces exist stereotypes by assuming people must look feminine/masculine enough to be a woman/man.
It is inevitable that this will both push trans people away from inclusion in society and end up being used on cis people who some random business owner decides isnt femme/masc enough to use the loo. And it will not save anyone from harm because there has been no demonstrated harm from allowing trans people to use the toilets of their choice!
simanthropy on
IMPORTANT
Just realised that the telegraph is the only place reporting this (and I refuse to click on the link to read the article and give them views) so I’m going to take this headline with a huge pinch of salt until other outlets pick it up.
I think maybe try to make this the top comment? Otherwise it will inflame an already terrible situation.
NGeoTeacher on
Oh, great, this again. I’m still fascinated to know how they’re supposed to police this. Are we having bouncers on toilet doors checking IDs as people go in? Are we relying on people to self-police? What happens when a woman who does not conform to gender stereotypes gets challenged because she doesn’t look feminine enough? And trans men? Are we just going to continue to pretend that they don’t exist?
callsignhotdog on
You know, I’m mostly resigned to the shitty things the Government chooses to do but this is still the one area that really gets to me. Just bullying a tiny, vulnerable minority purely to appease like 50 insane people who’ve fallen gleefully for an anti-LGBT wedge issue.
RaymondBumcheese on
My (female) daughter is 6ft tall and has been transvestigated while using the bathroom which was obviously incredibly distressing for her.
Some horrible busybodies just can’t wait to be given license to be absolute shitheads.
FuzzBuket on
But I kept hearing that big kier actually wasn’t pushing an anti-trans agenda and he was just following the law…
Honestly it’s insane. There’s been some good wins from labour but their obsession over trans people and arresting grannies have really alienated a lot of their base for no real gain.
It does feel like the only position labour pushes from their own conviction rather than polling or for any actual gain, are these petty cruelties, which is madness.
And whilst obviously these bills take time: it obviously reads badly. Both mcsweeny and wes are gone but if the govt keeps pushing their angles then it reflects badly on those remaining.
clickityclickk on
the most ridiculous thing ever. how is this being enforced?
sidenote, i saw a tiktok of a woman (yes a biological woman with all the right ‘bits) get accused of being a trans woman in a gym changing room. she looked and sounded slightly masculine, but was still a biological woman. transphobia is hurting ALL women. if a woman does not look or sound or act like a stereotypical woman she will be persecuted. ridiculous.
Tall-Photo-7481 on
So if they can’t go into the ladies, those trans women must now use the men’s instead, right?
Which logically follows that trans MEN are going to be going into the ladies.
Big, hairy, muscular, masculine trans men, with beards and everything.
I’m sure the womenfolk will be just fine with that, I can’t see any potential problems whatsoever.
Individual-Gur-7292 on
Absolutely disgusting decision. I have never given a single thought when using the female loos to whether the person in the cubicle next to me is a CIS or transgender woman. I just go in, do what I need to do, wash my hands and get on with my day.
It truly boggles my mind that anyone can give such a shit that they go to the length of campaigning to ban transgender women from using the female toilets. Absolutely pathetic.
SignalButterscotch73 on
Notice the blatant inequality in this demonisation of trans women by the Terfs and their media allies.
None of them give a shit about trans men.
If their bullshit about trans women in women’s toilets being a danger was genuinely true, because „men“, then trans men would be in even more danger because its a „woman“ going into the gents surrounded by the evil men.
I’ll also point out that there is no law that bans men from using women’s toilets, it’s curtesy.
lasthopel on
This is also why digital id and the nhs paletr stuff worries me, imagen every public bathroom needing a scanner where you scan your id so it „can make sure youre a REAL women“ or facial recognition tech being used to flag people for using the wrong bathroom
That might sound insain but that is genuinely something I can see being pushed
bulldog_blues on
Lowkey insane that less than 10 years ago a Conservative PM was fully behind changing the GRA to support self-ID, and now we have a Labour government doing this.
mikemac1997 on
Hang on, aren’t women toilets completely enclosed in individual cubicles with walls and doors for privacy?
Instead they shall go into the mens where you have a load of men all in a line without privacy using the urinal at the same time.
This seems like a perverts dream, a free pass to go into the men’s to look at dicks.
Important_Ruin on
Continually demonising an already ‚demonised group‘ can we stop finding ways to punish people, and instead a way to support them.
For such a small demographic of the population there seems to be a effort to make their lives as difficult as possible.
rwinh on
It’s shocking that a statistically harmless minority can be targeted in such a way that you’d think they’re all rapists, abusers, paedophiles etc if it wasn’t for the fact that they’re… really not.
How Labour, or any political party, can attack an entire demographic and put this much energy into targeting them when there are far more harmful groups, individuals and pressing matters to focus on.
If they’re listening to the bigoted views of the right wing, religious fundamentalists, or the plainly unhinged with too much time spent on social media (like a certain author), I think they should do a little less listening to them and a little more judging of those groups, as they’re the harmful ones to society, people, themselves and even British culture.
This obsession with the privates of others, from trans men and women, to women and abortions in general, is nothing more than a perverse obsession to control than to protect, or to distract from tougher jobs.
We’re going backwards, especially when there seemingly worse countries out there doing better in this area.
AutobotJessa on
One day I really hope I’m able to just simply exist without dealing with this shit or being cast as the villain.
JackStrawWitchita on
Performative hate wins votes in Brexit Britain. So sad to see.
schwillton on
Why are these freaks so obsessed with trans people and toilets anyway?
ServoSkull20 on
Trans people have become the scapegoat for the much wider problem of male violence against women.
FatFarter69 on
Literally why though? To appease the worst people you know?
oharu on
The trans people in toilets obsession in this country is the most manufactured political pandering I can remember, just embarrassing
JMM85JMM on
I hate how trans ‚issues‘ keep getting rolled out every time someone needs to score a political point. It’s genuinely despicable. I saw Andy Burnham targeted yesterday because he isn’t anti-trans in an attempt to weaken his leadership attempt.
I’ve been fortunate to meet a couple of trans people and hear about their struggles and it’s genuinely devastating. Trying to hold off going to the toilet all day because they want to avoid the inevitable conflict about which toilet they use, or being super excited to know there’s a gender neutral toilet 9 floors up that they can use without any drama.
I don’t understand why so many people are committed to making their lives difficult.
Prisoner3000 on
Thirty years ago I went to university with a trans woman. I’m pretty sure her gender never came up in conversation either with her, or about her. She was just “Emma” our friend and fellow student. Neither myself nor anyone else cared which bathroom she used. I’m pretty sure that it never even entered into my head as a question
How sad that we’ve gone backwards so much and so quickly
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I remember when boris wanted to push this and people were rightfully calling out how horrid and vile it was to use trans people as a weapon, labour is now doing the exact same thing and those people are quiet.
I cant wait to leave this country for good, truly nothing good can happen anymore
And in doing so secures labour the legacy being the worst government for LGBT rights in 30 years. Possibly ever, as it is such a backslide on rights.
A truly truly shameful situation that the UK is in.
Just for some context not that long ago red state governers in the US were vetoing stuff like this because it was too far/ unpopular and trans people haven’t changed in those years, but we’ve seen a concerted effort to demonize them and drum up support for exclusion. Propaganda does work and it worked on a lot of us
In 2017 the UK issued travel warnings to the US because of trans bathroom bans: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36104879
Now labour is apparently quite happy with the verdict that the Equality Act they introduced has supposed to act as a bathroom ban since 2010. I am so ashamed to live in this country and to be part of an NHS that will absolutely cause harm and lead to deaths putting this policy into practice.
Key reminder the government could just override that stupid judgement by stating thr equality act definition of covers sex and gender, but they wont, now uk is hopefully going back to the ECHR to get its ass beat again like it was in 2002
Also dont forget under the ruling the court created a legal definition of gay and lesbian, as in, if you are a gay women 100% gay only ever dated women, but you happen to date a trans women, even if she is post op fully surgery and everything, under the ruling youre not gay
Does this mean we are legally allowed to stand outside female toilets and get everyone coming in to show us their fanny before letting them in?
Also what does “banning” even mean? As far as I’m aware, as a cis man, even I’m not “banned” from female toilets, it’s just a social norm is it not?
No evidence this was ever necessary outside of extreme anti-LGBT ideology and crooked legal proceedings. The British government seems to find it impossible to just leave innocent minorities alone.
This will put a target on any woman who doesn’t look classically feminine, and will end in violence and murder, statistically probably of cis women.
How is this going to be enforced? Genital inspections at each women’s toilets?
Its incredible how far this government have been willing to remove rights from trans people based on nothing but fears and perceptions. Its just such ridiculous policy making that is literally Boris Johnson levels of stupid.
This will not only not make bathrooms safer, it will make places less safe for both trans people and cis women. It reinforces exist stereotypes by assuming people must look feminine/masculine enough to be a woman/man.
It is inevitable that this will both push trans people away from inclusion in society and end up being used on cis people who some random business owner decides isnt femme/masc enough to use the loo. And it will not save anyone from harm because there has been no demonstrated harm from allowing trans people to use the toilets of their choice!
IMPORTANT
Just realised that the telegraph is the only place reporting this (and I refuse to click on the link to read the article and give them views) so I’m going to take this headline with a huge pinch of salt until other outlets pick it up.
I think maybe try to make this the top comment? Otherwise it will inflame an already terrible situation.
Oh, great, this again. I’m still fascinated to know how they’re supposed to police this. Are we having bouncers on toilet doors checking IDs as people go in? Are we relying on people to self-police? What happens when a woman who does not conform to gender stereotypes gets challenged because she doesn’t look feminine enough? And trans men? Are we just going to continue to pretend that they don’t exist?
You know, I’m mostly resigned to the shitty things the Government chooses to do but this is still the one area that really gets to me. Just bullying a tiny, vulnerable minority purely to appease like 50 insane people who’ve fallen gleefully for an anti-LGBT wedge issue.
My (female) daughter is 6ft tall and has been transvestigated while using the bathroom which was obviously incredibly distressing for her.
Some horrible busybodies just can’t wait to be given license to be absolute shitheads.
But I kept hearing that big kier actually wasn’t pushing an anti-trans agenda and he was just following the law…
Honestly it’s insane. There’s been some good wins from labour but their obsession over trans people and arresting grannies have really alienated a lot of their base for no real gain.
It does feel like the only position labour pushes from their own conviction rather than polling or for any actual gain, are these petty cruelties, which is madness.
And whilst obviously these bills take time: it obviously reads badly. Both mcsweeny and wes are gone but if the govt keeps pushing their angles then it reflects badly on those remaining.
the most ridiculous thing ever. how is this being enforced?
sidenote, i saw a tiktok of a woman (yes a biological woman with all the right ‘bits) get accused of being a trans woman in a gym changing room. she looked and sounded slightly masculine, but was still a biological woman. transphobia is hurting ALL women. if a woman does not look or sound or act like a stereotypical woman she will be persecuted. ridiculous.
So if they can’t go into the ladies, those trans women must now use the men’s instead, right?
Which logically follows that trans MEN are going to be going into the ladies.
Big, hairy, muscular, masculine trans men, with beards and everything.
I’m sure the womenfolk will be just fine with that, I can’t see any potential problems whatsoever.
Absolutely disgusting decision. I have never given a single thought when using the female loos to whether the person in the cubicle next to me is a CIS or transgender woman. I just go in, do what I need to do, wash my hands and get on with my day.
It truly boggles my mind that anyone can give such a shit that they go to the length of campaigning to ban transgender women from using the female toilets. Absolutely pathetic.
Notice the blatant inequality in this demonisation of trans women by the Terfs and their media allies.
None of them give a shit about trans men.
If their bullshit about trans women in women’s toilets being a danger was genuinely true, because „men“, then trans men would be in even more danger because its a „woman“ going into the gents surrounded by the evil men.
I’ll also point out that there is no law that bans men from using women’s toilets, it’s curtesy.
This is also why digital id and the nhs paletr stuff worries me, imagen every public bathroom needing a scanner where you scan your id so it „can make sure youre a REAL women“ or facial recognition tech being used to flag people for using the wrong bathroom
That might sound insain but that is genuinely something I can see being pushed
Lowkey insane that less than 10 years ago a Conservative PM was fully behind changing the GRA to support self-ID, and now we have a Labour government doing this.
Hang on, aren’t women toilets completely enclosed in individual cubicles with walls and doors for privacy?
Instead they shall go into the mens where you have a load of men all in a line without privacy using the urinal at the same time.
This seems like a perverts dream, a free pass to go into the men’s to look at dicks.
Continually demonising an already ‚demonised group‘ can we stop finding ways to punish people, and instead a way to support them.
For such a small demographic of the population there seems to be a effort to make their lives as difficult as possible.
It’s shocking that a statistically harmless minority can be targeted in such a way that you’d think they’re all rapists, abusers, paedophiles etc if it wasn’t for the fact that they’re… really not.
How Labour, or any political party, can attack an entire demographic and put this much energy into targeting them when there are far more harmful groups, individuals and pressing matters to focus on.
If they’re listening to the bigoted views of the right wing, religious fundamentalists, or the plainly unhinged with too much time spent on social media (like a certain author), I think they should do a little less listening to them and a little more judging of those groups, as they’re the harmful ones to society, people, themselves and even British culture.
This obsession with the privates of others, from trans men and women, to women and abortions in general, is nothing more than a perverse obsession to control than to protect, or to distract from tougher jobs.
We’re going backwards, especially when there seemingly worse countries out there doing better in this area.
One day I really hope I’m able to just simply exist without dealing with this shit or being cast as the villain.
Performative hate wins votes in Brexit Britain. So sad to see.
Why are these freaks so obsessed with trans people and toilets anyway?
Trans people have become the scapegoat for the much wider problem of male violence against women.
Literally why though? To appease the worst people you know?
The trans people in toilets obsession in this country is the most manufactured political pandering I can remember, just embarrassing
I hate how trans ‚issues‘ keep getting rolled out every time someone needs to score a political point. It’s genuinely despicable. I saw Andy Burnham targeted yesterday because he isn’t anti-trans in an attempt to weaken his leadership attempt.
I’ve been fortunate to meet a couple of trans people and hear about their struggles and it’s genuinely devastating. Trying to hold off going to the toilet all day because they want to avoid the inevitable conflict about which toilet they use, or being super excited to know there’s a gender neutral toilet 9 floors up that they can use without any drama.
I don’t understand why so many people are committed to making their lives difficult.
Thirty years ago I went to university with a trans woman. I’m pretty sure her gender never came up in conversation either with her, or about her. She was just “Emma” our friend and fellow student. Neither myself nor anyone else cared which bathroom she used. I’m pretty sure that it never even entered into my head as a question
How sad that we’ve gone backwards so much and so quickly