America has been so dumbed down it isn’t funny. Where did all the smart ones go?
Blue_Back_Jack on
To fair, native Americans were made citizens by Congress with the passing of the Indian Citizenship Act of 1924. Natives were citizens of their tribal nations.
BarelyAirborne on
Which leads to the next logical question: If you’re going to deport them back to their home country, where are you going to send them?
Covo on
Honestly I haven’t been following this because it just depresses me that we have to litigate these things. Because of that, I really wasn’t following the logic on why this specific question was important. I asked ChatGPT to help give me some clarity on why this is important. I’m pasting here what it shared with me in case there are any others out there who may be a bit confused.
Justice Gorsuch wasn’t asking a random trivia question—he was **stress-testing the logic** of the government’s argument.
The government’s position hinges on this idea:
>
So Gorsuch basically asked: *“Okay—under your definition, what about Native Americans?”*
Why Native Americans are a tricky example
Historically:
* Native American tribes were treated as **separate sovereign nations**
* Members were sometimes described as **not fully under U.S. jurisdiction**
That’s actually why:
* The Supreme Court in the 1800s said Native Americans were *not* automatically citizens
* Congress had to pass the **Indian Citizenship Act of 1924** to make them citizens
Why Sauer hesitated
Because answering creates a problem **either way**:
Option 1: “Yes, Native Americans are birthright citizens”
That sounds reasonable today—but it creates a contradiction:
* If Native Americans were historically **not fully under U.S. jurisdiction**
* Yet are now clearly citizens
Then “jurisdiction” clearly **isn’t as narrow** as the government claims
In other words:
>
Option 2: “No, they wouldn’t be citizens under our test”
This is even worse:
* It would imply Native Americans **still aren’t entitled to birthright citizenship**
* That conflicts with:
* federal law (1924 Act)
* modern constitutional understanding
* It would sound politically and legally extreme
Option 3 (what he did): hesitate / avoid
He likely hesitated because:
* Any clear answer would **undermine his position**
* He needed to avoid saying something that:
* contradicts precedent, or
* exposes the weakness of their framework
Why this is bad for their argument
In Supreme Court arguments, a moment like this signals:
1. Their rule isn’t clean or consistent
A strong legal test should:
* apply clearly across cases
* not produce weird or contradictory results
Gorsuch showed: their test **struggles with obvious edge cases**
2. It highlights historical precedent against them
The Native American example reminds the Court:
* The Constitution has already been interpreted broadly
* When exceptions existed, they were **fixed by expanding citizenship**, not restricting it
3. It suggests unintended consequences
If their logic:
* excludes Native Americans historically
* maybe excludes other groups too
then the Court worries:
>
Big picture takeaway
Gorsuch’s question was basically a trap:
* If the government says **“jurisdiction is narrow”**, it risks excluding groups we all agree should be citizens
* If it says **“jurisdiction is broad enough for them”**, it undermines its own argument against birthright citizenship for others
That’s why the hesitation mattered—it showed:
>
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America has been so dumbed down it isn’t funny. Where did all the smart ones go?
To fair, native Americans were made citizens by Congress with the passing of the Indian Citizenship Act of 1924. Natives were citizens of their tribal nations.
Which leads to the next logical question: If you’re going to deport them back to their home country, where are you going to send them?
Honestly I haven’t been following this because it just depresses me that we have to litigate these things. Because of that, I really wasn’t following the logic on why this specific question was important. I asked ChatGPT to help give me some clarity on why this is important. I’m pasting here what it shared with me in case there are any others out there who may be a bit confused.
Justice Gorsuch wasn’t asking a random trivia question—he was **stress-testing the logic** of the government’s argument.
The government’s position hinges on this idea:
>
So Gorsuch basically asked: *“Okay—under your definition, what about Native Americans?”*
Why Native Americans are a tricky example
Historically:
* Native American tribes were treated as **separate sovereign nations**
* Members were sometimes described as **not fully under U.S. jurisdiction**
That’s actually why:
* The Supreme Court in the 1800s said Native Americans were *not* automatically citizens
* Congress had to pass the **Indian Citizenship Act of 1924** to make them citizens
Why Sauer hesitated
Because answering creates a problem **either way**:
Option 1: “Yes, Native Americans are birthright citizens”
That sounds reasonable today—but it creates a contradiction:
* If Native Americans were historically **not fully under U.S. jurisdiction**
* Yet are now clearly citizens
Then “jurisdiction” clearly **isn’t as narrow** as the government claims
In other words:
>
Option 2: “No, they wouldn’t be citizens under our test”
This is even worse:
* It would imply Native Americans **still aren’t entitled to birthright citizenship**
* That conflicts with:
* federal law (1924 Act)
* modern constitutional understanding
* It would sound politically and legally extreme
Option 3 (what he did): hesitate / avoid
He likely hesitated because:
* Any clear answer would **undermine his position**
* He needed to avoid saying something that:
* contradicts precedent, or
* exposes the weakness of their framework
Why this is bad for their argument
In Supreme Court arguments, a moment like this signals:
1. Their rule isn’t clean or consistent
A strong legal test should:
* apply clearly across cases
* not produce weird or contradictory results
Gorsuch showed: their test **struggles with obvious edge cases**
2. It highlights historical precedent against them
The Native American example reminds the Court:
* The Constitution has already been interpreted broadly
* When exceptions existed, they were **fixed by expanding citizenship**, not restricting it
3. It suggests unintended consequences
If their logic:
* excludes Native Americans historically
* maybe excludes other groups too
then the Court worries:
>
Big picture takeaway
Gorsuch’s question was basically a trap:
* If the government says **“jurisdiction is narrow”**, it risks excluding groups we all agree should be citizens
* If it says **“jurisdiction is broad enough for them”**, it undermines its own argument against birthright citizenship for others
That’s why the hesitation mattered—it showed:
>