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    1. ShareACokeWithBoonen on

      The 2014 Dobson/Campbell map seemed like it was going out of the way to label Kansas as ’not flat‘, and noticing both authors were from the University of Kansas, I decided to do some flatness checks on my own. I didn’t replicate their ‚ray tracing‘ method identically, as a least squares difference is a much more intuitive measurement for flatness to me, but I wanted to look at their ‚windows‘ that they chose for their measurement.

      They basically scan 10km circles of terrain and check how ‚flat‘ it is via their subjective angle raytracing measurement: https://www.disruptivegeo.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/FlatMap_GeographicalReview_DobsonCampbell_2013Nov.pdf
      They justify 10km as it’s how far a 6ft human can see on a flat portion of Earth. Fair enough, but I wanted to check other window sizes.
      I also noticed they used the 90m resolution SRTM dataset, as opposed to the many higher resolution 30m resolution datasets that are out there (since well before 2014).

      So, I checked both 90m and 30m datasets, using windows for each of 1km, 2km, 5km, 10km, and 20km. Turns out that, of all those 10 possibilities, they happened to choose the single one (90m resolution, 10km window) that shows the least ‚flat‘ ranking of Kansas, compared to all others that show a ‚flatter‘ ranking.

      The results I posted in a comment below correspond to the mean, median, and 90th percentile rankings of how ‚flat‘ all the windows of a given state are, by least mean squares flatness; in my case, I’m using the 30m resolution dataset with a 2km window.

      Just from my own personal opinion, this seems more realistic, yeah parts of California are flat as a pancake, but it’s a bit of a stretch to call it an average flatness state of the contiguous 48 haha.

      EDIT: parentheses numbers are Dobson’s rankings, the first set of numbers are my rankings from median window flatness.

    2. ShareACokeWithBoonen on

      state_name | rmse_median | rmse_mean | rmse_p90 | Dobson_rank
      —|—|—|—|—
      North Dakota | 3.47 | 4.66 | 9.42 | 7
      Illinois | 3.80 | 4.79 | 8.83 | 3
      Kansas | 3.81 | 4.32 | 7.68 | 9
      Florida | 3.99 | 4.11 | 7.01 | 1
      Minnesota | 4.01 | 4.99 | 8.91 | 5
      Texas | 4.15 | 6.01 | 11.30 | 8
      South Dakota | 4.60 | 6.19 | 12.24 | 17
      Oklahoma | 4.95 | 6.53 | 12.21 | 23
      Indiana | 4.95 | 6.47 | 13.01 | 12
      Iowa | 5.27 | 6.03 | 10.20 | 13
      Louisiana | 5.38 | 5.50 | 8.73 | 2
      Nebraska | 5.66 | 6.38 | 11.48 | 20
      Michigan | 5.71 | 6.45 | 10.61 | 22
      New Jersey | 6.02 | 9.13 | 18.73 | 14
      Delaware | 6.26 | 7.02 | 11.82 | 6
      Ohio | 6.33 | 9.57 | 20.88 | 19
      Mississippi | 6.54 | 6.59 | 9.69 | 15
      South Carolina | 6.54 | 7.51 | 10.96 | 4
      Georgia | 6.58 | 8.65 | 13.20 | 16
      Wisconsin | 6.72 | 8.44 | 15.52 | 25
      Arkansas | 7.06 | 11.33 | 26.73 | 10
      New Mexico | 7.32 | 14.07 | 37.09 | 29
      North Carolina | 7.37 | 13.77 | 39.00 | 11
      Missouri | 7.77 | 9.07 | 16.63 | 21
      Alabama | 8.20 | 10.18 | 16.95 | 27
      Rhode Island | 9.11 | 9.38 | 13.03 | 26
      Maryland | 9.31 | 11.94 | 21.23 | 18
      Arizona | 10.51 | 19.88 | 51.14 | 36
      Maine | 10.54 | 13.87 | 26.74 | 43
      Massachusetts | 10.70 | 13.59 | 25.34 | 34
      Virginia | 10.95 | 19.19 | 46.30 | 28
      Montana | 11.25 | 22.93 | 62.45 | 39
      Wyoming | 11.58 | 19.40 | 45.34 | 46
      Colorado | 12.59 | 24.05 | 62.17 | 31
      Tennessee | 12.59 | 17.53 | 37.03 | 33
      Kentucky | 13.15 | 18.66 | 41.04 | 30
      Connecticut | 13.19 | 15.06 | 24.88 | 42
      New York | 13.31 | 17.50 | 35.52 | 37
      Nevada | 13.36 | 20.43 | 50.23 | 38
      New Hampshire | 19.23 | 23.09 | 42.07 | 48
      Utah | 19.30 | 26.75 | 63.52 | 32
      Pennsylvania | 19.40 | 22.77 | 41.56 | 45
      Vermont | 23.54 | 25.65 | 44.45 | 49
      Oregon | 24.51 | 30.01 | 64.63 | 44
      California | 24.87 | 30.83 | 70.89 | 24
      Washington | 27.48 | 38.29 | 87.55 | 41
      Idaho | 30.60 | 36.77 | 81.75 | 40
      West Virginia | 33.72 | 36.54 | 59.51 | 47

    3. BrickHuge3023 on

      Haven’t been to North Dakota but have driven around Florida and 45 other states. Florida is without a doubt the flattest state in the Union. I drove all thru central Florida and found one (1) hill. A tiny one. North Dakota has some large hills and mountains so don’t see how it is flatter than Florida.

    4. ZERO_PORTRAIT on

      As a Tennessean, I have always thought of North Carolina as more mountainous than Tennessee, due to, well, it having more mountains, and many are taller, too.

      It’s totally bullshit how they get ocean access *and* more, taller mountains than Tennessee. We have nothing.

    5. alphawolf29 on

      even the flat areas of WA are not that flat. The palouse and central WA are like big plateaus with deep, deep valleys in them. Going from one of the plateau farms to one of the desert valleys feels like you just took a plane from kansas to mexico.

    6. MenuDiscombobulated5 on

      Agree that this map seems much more accurate just IMHO. When I saw the other map it just seemed… Wrong.

    7. VoteGiantMeteor2028 on

      Honestly when I looked at the first one I was like „Man, Colorado is getting done dirty.“

      Then when I look at this one I think „Man, Colorado still getting done dirty.“

      I know Montana, Wyoming, and Colorado have some pretty flat East sides… but they’re also home to some of the most extreme mountains in the world.

    8. Remarkable_Whole on

      This is a criminally underrated post for all the effort that went into it

    9. iusedtogotodigg on

      needs a legend to explain the numbers. what’s the first number? what’s the number in parentheses?

    10. Willing_Ad_1484 on

      As a North Dakotan I approve. Last week I watched my dog run away for 3 days straight. On the third day my neighbor let her in

    11. MortimerDongle on

      As a Pennsylvania, I’m shocked that PA is one of the least flat states. I would have guessed it would be closer to the middle. But I guess, despite not having any tall mountains, PA also doesn’t have any very large flat areas.

    12. Majestic-Lie-846 on

      Thanks for this. Haven’t checked it all out, but I’ve grown up and lived in the west for years, my first red flag was that oregon was supposedly less flat than Washington. Anyone that has traveled those 2 states knows that can’t be true. 

    13. dj_swearengen on

      Delaware is very very flat. It’s only hills are up near the PA line and they are just creek valleys.

    14. Now we wait to see if anyone is petty enough to take it down to a county level

    15. yeah, this makes more sense. no way in hell was michigan actually 22 lol. our hills and baby mountains in the UP are so negligible, we may as well just be an extension of the great plains. it sucks here.

    16. Honestly as someone from the Midwest I was a bit surprised by how „unflat“ some Midwest states were. I am sure parts of the state was doing the heavy lifting but still.

    17. nine_of_swords on

      It’s a bit a surprise that Georgia’s closer to Mississippi than it is to Alabama, considering how different Mississippi is in a physiographical sense from AL, GA & SC. Then I look at a [topographical map](https://cecas.clemson.edu/geolk12/semaps/seregional/screen/digielmap.jpg) and remember why.

      Most southern states are basically a gradient from the Appalachians to the coast (or Mississippi River in Tennessee’s case). Florida grabs a lot of the ocean flat zone Alabama would’ve had (though to be honest, if Alabama did have the panhandle, that lowest plain area would still be a low proportion of area since it doesn’t go as far inland as would other states). What Alabama does weird is that it’s low area is more tied to the Mobile River Basin that’s below the Fall Line. So besides the coastal areas and delta, the Black Belt that’s in the south central part of the state is the lowest. If the speckles of
      green don’t imply it, that brown zone in the north central part of the state is at the higher side of brown near green in the areas getting closer to the Black Belt. South of the Black Belt, elevation also rises again outside of the Mobile Basin rivers.

      So NC and AL are a bit of outliers from the rest of the coastal Southeast for different reasons: NC has a bit of an outlier highest high end for its gradient, and AL just said „Eff this gradient.“ Mississippi kept the Alabama attitude but has the Mississippi Delta and no Appalachian physiography (nor does it go as hard as AL does with the Black Belt), so it just ended up similar to GA & SC instead of LA.

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