It is entirely unsustainable and the hard truth is parents are going to have to take the responsibility for getting their children to and from school.
South_Buy_3175 on
I mean, the cost is absolutely insane and isn’t sustainable at all.
But I refuse to believe it costs 2 billion to send less than 2 million children to school.
It’s just brazen corruption and massive overspending. Just get someone to look through it all and root out the people who are utterly taking the piss.
UJ_Reddit on
Hidden cost of needing both parents to work. Maybe it’s about still school hours adapted like so many other countries?
Altruistic-Bat-9070 on
For context we spend 2.4 billion rebuilding schools each year to make them safe. We are giving taxi drivers almost the same amount as we are trying to spend just keeping the schools upright.
Monkeyliar95 on
It’s unfortunately a combination of abuse of the system by the companies overcharging and making massive profits from the tax payers expense, abuse by the parents getting their children diagnosed with disabilities on purpose because it lets them get additional benefits and abuse by the councils themselves, who are likely getting back handlers from giving the lucrative essentially unlimited cost transport contracts to people they know and not attempting to atleast question why some of these fees are so excessive.
PhyllisCaunter on
The massive explosion in SEND diagnosis means the system is going to topple over without urgent reform. Otherwise the children with the most acute needs will suffer the most.
PersistentWorld on
The suggestion that 20% of our children have special educational needs is just nonsense.
Actual-Butterfly2350 on
Parents being given the responsibility and cost of getting their kids to school is a great idea, apart from when you factor in the fact that there are barely any SEN school places meaning the only suitable ones with spaces are a long distance away. Then you factor in both parents needing to work because the cost of living isn’t sustainable therefore the time a round trip takes twice a day isn’t feasible. There are also the circumstances where one child is SEN in a multiple child family and this is where the distance of the SEN provision comes in again. Very difficult to get one or more children to mainstream school while the SEN kid needs to get to a provision miles away at the same time.
I also think a lot of the general public who don’t have experience of this don’t realise that to get a SEN placement and transport, the child has to have an EHCP which is quite difficult to get and certainly not available to children who have mild difficulties so the argument of children being diagnosed with things as an excuse for poor behaviour doesn’t really stand up there.
Maybe if mainstream schools budgets hadn’t been so severely decimated they would be more able to keep more children locally?
Zanmato79 on
Was there talk of means testing families with SEN child(ren) to cover at in part the transport costs. There certainly was last year in Lancashire.
> Its recommendations included the introduction of means testing, so that families of SEND children whose household income exceeds a certain level would be expected to make a financial contribution to their travel costs.
I think there is a push to attach specialist units to mainstream schools, but how good that provision will be remains to be seen as opposed to either a council run or private specialist school.
Often parents will take the Lead Education Authority (LEA) to tribunal to get their preferred provision and 99% of the time will win meaning the LEA foot the bill.
I have SEN daughter and are seeking specialist provision for her. Undoubtedly if and when that time comes, transport will be a headache for us.
JaffaCakeScoffer on
People have known about this for ages, but like with many issues, opposing this absolute madness risks you being labelled as someone who doesn’t are about SEND children. Politicians won’t touch it with a 10 foot pole.
unbelievablydull82 on
Good to see commentators wanting to throw SEN kids under the bus on here. The numbers aren’t the kids fault, they’re the government’s fault for closing down SEN schools, for mismanagement of funds, things that the government needs to fix. Reducing opportunities for SEN kids to have an education, reducing their chances to have any positive role in society is pathetic, and inhumane. Tough choices always seem to mean the most vulnerable people become worse off, all whilst the rich make more and more money. Cowards will always kick parents of SEN kids, and the kids themselves, whilst bending over and letting the rich ride them
Mr_Bobby_D_ on
There needs to be a better process for transportation rather than just using local taxi firms who seem to charge hugely inflated fares …minibuses managed by local authorities or something perhaps ?
MoblandJordan on
How come we can’t just have school busses in this country?
WaitroseValueVodka on
These are going to be children with profound disabilities who need special schools.
Ideally we’d have enough special school provision to allow these children to have a short journey to their school with their parents. But we don’t, so the highest need children need to travel long distances for school.
WinHour4300 on
Costs are excessive because of short-termism and poor planning. Councils are spending huge sums on taxis, funded by central government, instead of investing in local SEN provision.
I’d:
– Take it out of councils’ hands, rhey’re not really footing the full bill so the incentives are wrong;
– Properly investigate taxi contracts; there are too many links to councillors and former councillors;
– Create a national plan to build more local SEN schools, using empty buildings or requiring developers to include small SEN schools (and some accessible homes) in new housing projects which we need anyway
– Alongside that start long term studies to see what type of SEN provision and strategies work best for kids wellbeing and other goals.
Even in the short term, it would be cheaper to help families move closer to suitable schools than to keep paying massive daily transport costs.
Unfortunately the short-termism means it’s more likely that SEN provision will be cut which will cost more long term.
Especially, actually for very disabled kids. If they learn to communicate or reduce problematic or violent behaviour as well as improving their lives care will be much much cheaper.
Wiseman738 on
It does appear that us Brits have a special knack for the cost of things spiralling out of control from nuclear reactors and high speed railways to SEND provision. It appears to be a systematic issue. This is the best argument for there being a centralised pot of SEND funds distributed from central govt directly rather than through reams of middlemen. Then we can hopefully see where the money is going more clearly and identify areas where it is being exploited. As someone whose worked in the SEND sector I know there is significant undercutting of costs by private firms which are maximising profit.
Whilst we’re at it, maybe we consider a ‚max spend per X per student‘ like we do with medications in the NHS — as there’s no official cap to EHCP costs. With special dispensations for students who have extreme needs/disabilities where a lack of support would result in death/injuriy/dramatic reduction in quality of life — e.g physical disabilities which require specialist transport that might be possible only in specific vehicles.
AdrianFish on
I really need to get into one of these dodgy sectors that crooked ministers give shit loads of money to with no questions asked. It sounds far better than my current routine of getting up at 6 every weekday and working a job full of cretins I hate for a poor wage.
Material_Focus_4114 on
Does this actually just include the send provision though? Because I know that anyone that lives over 3 miles away from school is entitled to school transport, so is this not including that, because that would make more sense? For send provision where children are taken to specialist schools, these are usually mini buses, offering a routine and support on the journey..I’m not sure how that could amount to £2bn?
And by the way I am in receipt of neither so have no bias, just common decency. There will always be some that abuse the system, it shouldn’t be at the cost of those that need it.
Radiant_Fondant_4097 on
Ah yes the humble “r/unitedkingdom dumping on the disabled” thread again, you could make a bingo tally of these regular posts;
– “There is no magic money tree”
– “Families should just pack up and move”
– “They won’t amount to anything anyway”
– “I don’t have any solutions”
– “They should just be taken out and left”
– “Parents should take responsibility”
– “It’s all just made up anyway for benefits”
Come on man, it’s tiresome.
Gc1981 on
4 doors up from me are married cousins who have 6 kids. 2 are disabled to the point they get taxis to and from school even though the have a adapted vw transporter set up to take both wheelchairs. Neither work. In fact you wouldn’t even know the dad was there if you didn’t hear him shouting all the time. Presumably the house and everything else are state funded, unless they have a benefactor somewhere. How is this sustainable. Some sort of professional should step in at some point.
voice_noter on
Coming from a parent of a SEND child I do see this as an issue.
There are definitely circumstances where it is suitable for the child but I honestly see people who basically use it because they can and don’t actually need it.
When you apply for a SEND school or provision you do not get a choice where you can go, obviously if your in the catchment area which I was we luckily got a place there so I take my child there, where I stay I would say the furthest away school is around 30 minutes drive if needed I would personally drive there, that’s my choice but others could be further away or basically have no way of getting them there,
Our LA actually have a mini bus that picks children up which is great to see but there’s still around 6 taxis dropping children off. I’m not sure how applications go but I think it needs to be looked at on an individual basis and need and have it a bit stricter.
No_Pea-1 on
My next door neighbours have two kids with special needs. They’re like 5-6 years old, non verbal, not great at using the toilet, ipad addicted, etc.
The boyfriend lives there but on paper so the girlfriend gets more money. Around 32k a year. They own the house outright. He has a 30hr a week job and his own car etc at a local shop.
She hasn’t got a job because the children are a lot of work. He doesnt really help with the kids.
The kids get a taxi 30 miles to school and back…
CakeAndFireworksDay on
Fuck me would it not be cheaper for the government to just give the money to the parents ? Then they can find a cab or take the money and drive them themselves
AtypicalBob on
So, I had to go to a SEN (I hate that term) school in another county – four hours away in the 90s, so never mind the educational costs, there was the boarding costs borne out by the LEA.
This entire system has been on its knees for at least a decade – however we also are seeing the consequences of such a hollowing out of provisions in post-18 adults – by that I mean housing and job opportunities.
I have concerns – that it may be too late – the system in general – not just SEN provision, is at a point of no return – and governments of whatever hue do not have the courage nor the political nous to do whatever it takes to support some of our most vulnerable in society.
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It is entirely unsustainable and the hard truth is parents are going to have to take the responsibility for getting their children to and from school.
I mean, the cost is absolutely insane and isn’t sustainable at all.
But I refuse to believe it costs 2 billion to send less than 2 million children to school.
It’s just brazen corruption and massive overspending. Just get someone to look through it all and root out the people who are utterly taking the piss.
Hidden cost of needing both parents to work. Maybe it’s about still school hours adapted like so many other countries?
For context we spend 2.4 billion rebuilding schools each year to make them safe. We are giving taxi drivers almost the same amount as we are trying to spend just keeping the schools upright.
It’s unfortunately a combination of abuse of the system by the companies overcharging and making massive profits from the tax payers expense, abuse by the parents getting their children diagnosed with disabilities on purpose because it lets them get additional benefits and abuse by the councils themselves, who are likely getting back handlers from giving the lucrative essentially unlimited cost transport contracts to people they know and not attempting to atleast question why some of these fees are so excessive.
The massive explosion in SEND diagnosis means the system is going to topple over without urgent reform. Otherwise the children with the most acute needs will suffer the most.
The suggestion that 20% of our children have special educational needs is just nonsense.
Parents being given the responsibility and cost of getting their kids to school is a great idea, apart from when you factor in the fact that there are barely any SEN school places meaning the only suitable ones with spaces are a long distance away. Then you factor in both parents needing to work because the cost of living isn’t sustainable therefore the time a round trip takes twice a day isn’t feasible. There are also the circumstances where one child is SEN in a multiple child family and this is where the distance of the SEN provision comes in again. Very difficult to get one or more children to mainstream school while the SEN kid needs to get to a provision miles away at the same time.
I also think a lot of the general public who don’t have experience of this don’t realise that to get a SEN placement and transport, the child has to have an EHCP which is quite difficult to get and certainly not available to children who have mild difficulties so the argument of children being diagnosed with things as an excuse for poor behaviour doesn’t really stand up there.
Maybe if mainstream schools budgets hadn’t been so severely decimated they would be more able to keep more children locally?
Was there talk of means testing families with SEN child(ren) to cover at in part the transport costs. There certainly was last year in Lancashire.
> Its recommendations included the introduction of means testing, so that families of SEND children whose household income exceeds a certain level would be expected to make a financial contribution to their travel costs.
I think there is a push to attach specialist units to mainstream schools, but how good that provision will be remains to be seen as opposed to either a council run or private specialist school.
Often parents will take the Lead Education Authority (LEA) to tribunal to get their preferred provision and 99% of the time will win meaning the LEA foot the bill.
https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/24129794.lancashire-spiralling-cost-special-educational-needs-transport/
I have SEN daughter and are seeking specialist provision for her. Undoubtedly if and when that time comes, transport will be a headache for us.
People have known about this for ages, but like with many issues, opposing this absolute madness risks you being labelled as someone who doesn’t are about SEND children. Politicians won’t touch it with a 10 foot pole.
Good to see commentators wanting to throw SEN kids under the bus on here. The numbers aren’t the kids fault, they’re the government’s fault for closing down SEN schools, for mismanagement of funds, things that the government needs to fix. Reducing opportunities for SEN kids to have an education, reducing their chances to have any positive role in society is pathetic, and inhumane. Tough choices always seem to mean the most vulnerable people become worse off, all whilst the rich make more and more money. Cowards will always kick parents of SEN kids, and the kids themselves, whilst bending over and letting the rich ride them
There needs to be a better process for transportation rather than just using local taxi firms who seem to charge hugely inflated fares …minibuses managed by local authorities or something perhaps ?
How come we can’t just have school busses in this country?
These are going to be children with profound disabilities who need special schools.
Ideally we’d have enough special school provision to allow these children to have a short journey to their school with their parents. But we don’t, so the highest need children need to travel long distances for school.
Costs are excessive because of short-termism and poor planning. Councils are spending huge sums on taxis, funded by central government, instead of investing in local SEN provision.
I’d:
– Take it out of councils’ hands, rhey’re not really footing the full bill so the incentives are wrong;
– Properly investigate taxi contracts; there are too many links to councillors and former councillors;
– Create a national plan to build more local SEN schools, using empty buildings or requiring developers to include small SEN schools (and some accessible homes) in new housing projects which we need anyway
– Alongside that start long term studies to see what type of SEN provision and strategies work best for kids wellbeing and other goals.
Even in the short term, it would be cheaper to help families move closer to suitable schools than to keep paying massive daily transport costs.
Unfortunately the short-termism means it’s more likely that SEN provision will be cut which will cost more long term.
Especially, actually for very disabled kids. If they learn to communicate or reduce problematic or violent behaviour as well as improving their lives care will be much much cheaper.
It does appear that us Brits have a special knack for the cost of things spiralling out of control from nuclear reactors and high speed railways to SEND provision. It appears to be a systematic issue. This is the best argument for there being a centralised pot of SEND funds distributed from central govt directly rather than through reams of middlemen. Then we can hopefully see where the money is going more clearly and identify areas where it is being exploited. As someone whose worked in the SEND sector I know there is significant undercutting of costs by private firms which are maximising profit.
Whilst we’re at it, maybe we consider a ‚max spend per X per student‘ like we do with medications in the NHS — as there’s no official cap to EHCP costs. With special dispensations for students who have extreme needs/disabilities where a lack of support would result in death/injuriy/dramatic reduction in quality of life — e.g physical disabilities which require specialist transport that might be possible only in specific vehicles.
I really need to get into one of these dodgy sectors that crooked ministers give shit loads of money to with no questions asked. It sounds far better than my current routine of getting up at 6 every weekday and working a job full of cretins I hate for a poor wage.
Does this actually just include the send provision though? Because I know that anyone that lives over 3 miles away from school is entitled to school transport, so is this not including that, because that would make more sense? For send provision where children are taken to specialist schools, these are usually mini buses, offering a routine and support on the journey..I’m not sure how that could amount to £2bn?
And by the way I am in receipt of neither so have no bias, just common decency. There will always be some that abuse the system, it shouldn’t be at the cost of those that need it.
Ah yes the humble “r/unitedkingdom dumping on the disabled” thread again, you could make a bingo tally of these regular posts;
– “There is no magic money tree”
– “Families should just pack up and move”
– “They won’t amount to anything anyway”
– “I don’t have any solutions”
– “They should just be taken out and left”
– “Parents should take responsibility”
– “It’s all just made up anyway for benefits”
Come on man, it’s tiresome.
4 doors up from me are married cousins who have 6 kids. 2 are disabled to the point they get taxis to and from school even though the have a adapted vw transporter set up to take both wheelchairs. Neither work. In fact you wouldn’t even know the dad was there if you didn’t hear him shouting all the time. Presumably the house and everything else are state funded, unless they have a benefactor somewhere. How is this sustainable. Some sort of professional should step in at some point.
Coming from a parent of a SEND child I do see this as an issue.
There are definitely circumstances where it is suitable for the child but I honestly see people who basically use it because they can and don’t actually need it.
When you apply for a SEND school or provision you do not get a choice where you can go, obviously if your in the catchment area which I was we luckily got a place there so I take my child there, where I stay I would say the furthest away school is around 30 minutes drive if needed I would personally drive there, that’s my choice but others could be further away or basically have no way of getting them there,
Our LA actually have a mini bus that picks children up which is great to see but there’s still around 6 taxis dropping children off. I’m not sure how applications go but I think it needs to be looked at on an individual basis and need and have it a bit stricter.
My next door neighbours have two kids with special needs. They’re like 5-6 years old, non verbal, not great at using the toilet, ipad addicted, etc.
The boyfriend lives there but on paper so the girlfriend gets more money. Around 32k a year. They own the house outright. He has a 30hr a week job and his own car etc at a local shop.
She hasn’t got a job because the children are a lot of work. He doesnt really help with the kids.
The kids get a taxi 30 miles to school and back…
Fuck me would it not be cheaper for the government to just give the money to the parents ? Then they can find a cab or take the money and drive them themselves
So, I had to go to a SEN (I hate that term) school in another county – four hours away in the 90s, so never mind the educational costs, there was the boarding costs borne out by the LEA.
This entire system has been on its knees for at least a decade – however we also are seeing the consequences of such a hollowing out of provisions in post-18 adults – by that I mean housing and job opportunities.
I have concerns – that it may be too late – the system in general – not just SEN provision, is at a point of no return – and governments of whatever hue do not have the courage nor the political nous to do whatever it takes to support some of our most vulnerable in society.