Es wurde abgelehnt, da Kriegsminister Henry Stimson argumentierte, es würde Millionen von Deutschen töten und die europäische Wirtschaft lahmlegen, während es gleichzeitig den deutschen Widerstand verstärken und die Nazi-Propaganda Wirklichkeit werden lassen würde
Es wurde geschätzt, dass 40 % der deutschen Bevölkerung, etwa 30 Millionen Menschen, gestorben wären, wenn dies umgesetzt worden wäre
Von Solid-Move-1411
29 Kommentare
Shame
And let me guess, the International Zone will be blessed with American „strategic“ air bases use to defend democracy and protect the „West“ from the cannibals that is of the „East“ and USSR?
That would been seriously disgusting and inhuman plan especially when we are talking about nation that was highly advanced and contributed lot to science and modern world. Nazis were disaster not just for europe but also for whole nation of german people, that alone shouldnt determine faith of the nation.
WWIII programmed
Bro really wanted to speedrun the interwar period between WW2 and WW3
It would be an exact, even worse, repetition of the mistakes made by the Triple Entente at the end of WWI in 1918 and the Treaty of Versailles and it would make a WWIII much more likely. Back then nobody would’ve thought it was possible either for Germany to re-arm within a few years and take over Europe, yet it did.
A center point why Hitler was so successfull and why the first republic didn’t hold up is the Treaty of Versailles and the fact that Germany never fully recovered from the first war in parts due to this (and also economy crisis of 1929), that was until Hitler introduced massive national debt to cover the costs of military buildup.
What eventually did happen to Germany after 1945 is probably the best that could’ve happened and now we are in the 81st year of peace in Europe.
I understand it from a revenge prospective, but it would 100% make the Nazis seem in the right in the eyes of many the Germans.
Basically just: “Hey Germans, this is what the Nazis did during their time in power. We’re going to proceed to do the exact same thing with hundreds of thousands of you that you did to everyone else just to show how bad it is.”
Shame, it would have been a good plan. As long as the labour camps didn’t go on too long and were only in Europe and Africa(places the Germans destroyed)
whats up with all the german apologia recently on this sub?
we get it, the biggest victims of WW2 were the germans
Im thankful that none of this happened. Imagine not learning anything from 1st world war
Looot of americans getting antsy about this, given the current state of things.
(Though I’m mostly teasing: this shit is pretty damn horrific.)
What a nightmare.
I can smell the guerrilla warfare from here…. Be ready for a death toll unheard of or try convincing the us public that just won a war against genocide why committing a genocide is now suddenly good…. Yeah no way this will end badly. No sir.
So revenge from WWI is what largely lead to the rise of Nazis. So let’s punish them further… That’s a crazy take.
Herbert Hoover wrote about this plan: „there is the illusion that the New Germany left after the annexations can be reduced to a ‚pastoral state.‘ It cannot be done unless we exterminate or move 25,000,000 people out of it.“
A small detail: the net loss of territory in this scenario is actually smaller than in the original timeline, because the North German state retains territory east of the Oder–Neisse line.
I understand that the horrific plans involving an agrarian society and slave labor would have provoked enormous reactions, but I actually expect that these would never have come to fruition anyway. (Especially when you look at how quickly Germany historically managed to recover.)
Territorially, then, this is not such a bad plan for Germany, with a possible eventual reunification.
I like Kiel, but it’s odd that that is the only city marked lol.
This is pretty much what the Nazis planned for Russia and Ukraine had they won.
Ah yes, „international zone“, a fun way to say „British control“.
Worst case scenario.
It would have caused gurilia warfare, not only the germans at home but especially the ones used as slaves. Worst case scenario. Depending on a lot of factors a small genocide, or a full scale genocide would have been neccesary to make these slaves work in the forst place and keep the germans back home from rebuilding there industry.
That, again worst case, would cause the us public to now rise up and rebel, they just destroyed a genocidal evil empire just to…. Genocide a people? That wouldn’t go well with all the „heroes“ coming home, especially those that had interacted with german pows or medics on the western front during the war.
We are talking about global scale unrest and revolts. Potentially also in the UK and france, though I doubt France. They would most likely use the unrest in the us to march in and occupy Germany. Only to save keep and ensure the deindustrialised state of it of course. Gurillia warfare ensues. All while there colony’s like Vietnam still rebel like they did irl (no reason they wouldn’t)
Lots of dead. Hundreds of thousands or even millions. Almost like the war never ended. Usa trying to, but failing to, intervene in the korean war, not having the forces and resources to support france against vietnam, or still trying and failing due to even more unrest at home. The ussr would use this injustice as propaganda material and at the first chance, i would assume roughly around the vietnam war irl, march in and „liberate“ the poor, misguided, and now oppressed germans, after all „it wasn’t you worker! You were misguided and led to act against your own interests. It was the powerful capitalists!“ Was kinda there whole ideological thing you know?
Potentially the anti war movement turns fully radical and starts a civil war even, or at least unrests assassinations and attacks. The entire south east asia is turning communist, either due to rebellion or due to the big communist aggressively expanding. Britain is facing the same kind of revolts due to the ones against france encouraging them. Thus losing their colonial empire even earlier, and the tie break being way more final. Usa, again not able or willing to help. Lots of dead, potentially unrest in the uk too. Continental europe with or without france, getting finally gobbled up by the ussr.
No EU and weak European economy in turmoil also means way less development aid and generally aid and charity around the world. Almost none of the diseases that got eradicated irl got eradicated.
Final result? lots of deaths economic breakdowns around the globe, a century of global instability war and death (not in the ussr) that makes the irl death toll and wars look like fistfights and overall globally way lower Standards of living. Ussr never collapses and is way stronger. Eyeing up the chance of getting over the pond and finishing the world revolution. Perhaps even supporting and arming revolts in the us and the Americas.
Best case scenario? Nothing close in scale to the worst case scenario happens. A few million dead germans, happen. Germany, and never joining nato. German and France never forming the EU. A way weaker France, a weaker GB, a weaker or still impoverished poland, Czechia, Hungary and romania. Occasional starvation and famines in all of these countries. Generally a weaker europe and thus is more powerful russia after the soviets collapsed (assuming that still happens, no reason it wouldn’t in this case). Lots of deaths from starvation (germany just is too densely populated and too small to be an agrarian society while having 70M people)
The weaker economic standing of europe as a whole would mean more unrest, even more wars and civil wars in Europe. Just overall more instability and unrest. And the usa and russia having free reign to do with europe as they please. And that’s the best case.
25 million.
Morgenthau himself estimated his plan would kill 25 million Germans (disproportionately children).
No one disputes this number
That’s worth including including in your blurb.
Evil plan.
I’m learning a lot about “hidden” history thanks to this sub. Ty guys!
It looks so much to what they’re doing to Palestine.
We can still do this, remove the eastern countries and Bavaria into their own entities, im totally OK with that, please do it!
WW3 secured by 1965
So, like a pre industrial serfdom russian state. But in central-ish europe.
Morgenthau himself was born in Germany. I wonder what would compel him to want 25 million Germans killed with his plan?
How is it different from what happend?
A change is that parts in current Poland stay in Germany except (East) Prussia, and International Zone happens.
Doesn’t sound like major change.