It is clear Russia will not accept these points. Ukraine is in the right here of course, but it’s extremely far apart from what was proposed by the US… Ehhh Kremlin.
gumiho-9th-tail on
* Confirmation of Ukraine’s sovereignty
* Non-aggression agreement between Russia and Ukraine; monitoring on the contact line
* Security guarantees
* A peacetime cap on the Ukrainian military to 800,000 personnel
* The US, NATO and Europe will provide Ukraine with security guarantees based on NATO’s Article 5 mutual defense clause; a new Russian invasion is to be met with a military response and renewed sanctions.
* Russia will enshrine a non-aggression policy towards Europe and Ukraine in all necessary laws
* Ukraine will become an EU member at some point, with plans to fix the accession date
* A global development package to be determined in a separate investment agreement
* The creation of several funds to address recovery issues (goal: $800 billion)
* Acceleration of the free trade agreement between Ukraine and the US
* Ukraine’s nuclear-free status
* (Terms contested) Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant: The US offers a trilateral arrangement, with the US as the chief manager; Kyiv offers to split it 50/50 between the US and Ukraine
* Educational programs in schools to promote understanding and tolerance of different cultures and to eliminate racism and prejudice
* (Terms contested) Territories. One option sees Russia withdrawing from Dnipropetrovsk, Mykolaiv, Sumy, and Kharkiv, while Ukraine holds its positions in Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhia, and Kherson. Russia demands Ukraine leave Donetsk, while the US proposes a compromise: a free economic zone. If the “hold positions” agreement fails, the free economic zone would require a referendum, and the entire document would then be subject to a vote
* Russia and Ukraine undertake not to change the agreements by force
* Russia will not prevent Ukraine from using the Dnieper River and the Black Sea for commercial purposes. The Kinburn Spit will be demilitarized
* All-for-all prisoner exchange, return of civilians, children, and political prisoners
* Ukraine must hold elections soon after the agreement is signed
* This agreement will be legally binding. Its implementation will be monitored by a Peace Council headed by US President Donald Trump
* Once all parties agree to this agreement, a full ceasefire will come into effect immediately
Free-Way-9220 on
>dropping provisions including the waiver of all legal recourse for war crimes
This is important to for Trump. After the war is over, anyone who tries to hold Vladimir Putin accountable for his war crimes will be in Trump’s crosshairs. He’ll also push for the frozen assets returned to Russia, and go after anyone who tries to prevent that
I’d add that any security guarantee from Trump is worthless. He’ll simply blame Ukraine when Russia disregards the rules
nondesirableeffect on
Okay, so what we have here:
Russia doesn’t want to give ZPP back, so 10 revisions are expected.
Ukraine loses all security guarantees if attack first, and Russia will use every bribe to convince Ukraine did attack first.
Russian language and culture, nice, don’t we love imperialism and colonialism? Can’t wait to see how Russia will start respecting Ukraine, after decades of dehumanizing.
Russia pledges not to attack Europe, cool, but by their constitution, Putin couldn’t be president for more than two terms, and he is on his third term in a row.
Elections will be held in Ukraine, wow, the whole point about something that will happen anyway after the war.
And point 19, which means when Trump is gone the deal is off?
But, considering Russia already said they won’t agree to anything less than their demands, I think stroking Trump’s ego went too far, this is just useless, they won’t agree, doesn’t matter how bad or bad the deal is for Ukraine.
FoxLast947 on
A lot of the points also appear as demands from other countries? Like does the EU even agree with Ukraine joining? And who’s going to provide the „global development package“.
PartyRepublicMusic on
Any peace deal the West and Ukraine would consider acceptable directly threatens the survival logic of Russia’s current regime. From Moscow’s perspective, a “reasonable” peace is actually more dangerous than a messy, ongoing war.
p.s. Listen to Deep Sleep Panda on Spotify, Best Sleeping Music in the West 🇺🇸🇺🇦
Pitiful-Stable-9737 on
The next elections in Ukraine will be a mess. Russian meddling and disinformation, and who knows what Trump is going to do.
Bruvvimir on
Hopeless.
Opening-Border-6313 on
Why cant they rest even at Christmas? Chill the fuck out guys
Ok-Advantage-1723 on
Big F’in no on Article 5 prot and Ukraine /US free trade. Also development package needs to be fully funded by Europe
PhasedArrayAnt on
Not gonna happen. The only way this ends is Europe fully backing Ukraine until Russia’s economy reaches a crisis point. Only then will they agree to reasonable terms
SuperRektT on
A peacetime cap on the Ukrainian military to 800,000 personnel
Sure
Btw this peace plan is not going to happen.
gingermalteser on
That’s 20 more than Trump would be willing to read.
DoomguyFemboi on
Russia is just getting everything now. Ukraine must be so desperate, I wonder what’s pushing this, if it’s the US threats or just knowing this Winter is gonna be especially brutal and people just can’t go on.
The fucked up thing now is all the spinning up of arms manufacturing, Europe will stand down because Russia will look less like a threat, it’s gonna be a weird time. I just don’t see the posturing staying in place as Russia is absolutely decimated
I bet Trump is forcing this with threats because he’s not getting his way and he wants his bribes and everyone to say he created a peace.
One potential upside is this is some sort of ploy; give in and give in and give in, and then when Russia says no they finally have enough to show Trump that Russia can only be stopped by force.
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It is clear Russia will not accept these points. Ukraine is in the right here of course, but it’s extremely far apart from what was proposed by the US… Ehhh Kremlin.
* Confirmation of Ukraine’s sovereignty
* Non-aggression agreement between Russia and Ukraine; monitoring on the contact line
* Security guarantees
* A peacetime cap on the Ukrainian military to 800,000 personnel
* The US, NATO and Europe will provide Ukraine with security guarantees based on NATO’s Article 5 mutual defense clause; a new Russian invasion is to be met with a military response and renewed sanctions.
* Russia will enshrine a non-aggression policy towards Europe and Ukraine in all necessary laws
* Ukraine will become an EU member at some point, with plans to fix the accession date
* A global development package to be determined in a separate investment agreement
* The creation of several funds to address recovery issues (goal: $800 billion)
* Acceleration of the free trade agreement between Ukraine and the US
* Ukraine’s nuclear-free status
* (Terms contested) Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant: The US offers a trilateral arrangement, with the US as the chief manager; Kyiv offers to split it 50/50 between the US and Ukraine
* Educational programs in schools to promote understanding and tolerance of different cultures and to eliminate racism and prejudice
* (Terms contested) Territories. One option sees Russia withdrawing from Dnipropetrovsk, Mykolaiv, Sumy, and Kharkiv, while Ukraine holds its positions in Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhia, and Kherson. Russia demands Ukraine leave Donetsk, while the US proposes a compromise: a free economic zone. If the “hold positions” agreement fails, the free economic zone would require a referendum, and the entire document would then be subject to a vote
* Russia and Ukraine undertake not to change the agreements by force
* Russia will not prevent Ukraine from using the Dnieper River and the Black Sea for commercial purposes. The Kinburn Spit will be demilitarized
* All-for-all prisoner exchange, return of civilians, children, and political prisoners
* Ukraine must hold elections soon after the agreement is signed
* This agreement will be legally binding. Its implementation will be monitored by a Peace Council headed by US President Donald Trump
* Once all parties agree to this agreement, a full ceasefire will come into effect immediately
>dropping provisions including the waiver of all legal recourse for war crimes
This is important to for Trump. After the war is over, anyone who tries to hold Vladimir Putin accountable for his war crimes will be in Trump’s crosshairs. He’ll also push for the frozen assets returned to Russia, and go after anyone who tries to prevent that
I’d add that any security guarantee from Trump is worthless. He’ll simply blame Ukraine when Russia disregards the rules
Okay, so what we have here:
Russia doesn’t want to give ZPP back, so 10 revisions are expected.
Ukraine loses all security guarantees if attack first, and Russia will use every bribe to convince Ukraine did attack first.
Russian language and culture, nice, don’t we love imperialism and colonialism? Can’t wait to see how Russia will start respecting Ukraine, after decades of dehumanizing.
Russia pledges not to attack Europe, cool, but by their constitution, Putin couldn’t be president for more than two terms, and he is on his third term in a row.
Elections will be held in Ukraine, wow, the whole point about something that will happen anyway after the war.
And point 19, which means when Trump is gone the deal is off?
But, considering Russia already said they won’t agree to anything less than their demands, I think stroking Trump’s ego went too far, this is just useless, they won’t agree, doesn’t matter how bad or bad the deal is for Ukraine.
A lot of the points also appear as demands from other countries? Like does the EU even agree with Ukraine joining? And who’s going to provide the „global development package“.
Any peace deal the West and Ukraine would consider acceptable directly threatens the survival logic of Russia’s current regime. From Moscow’s perspective, a “reasonable” peace is actually more dangerous than a messy, ongoing war.
p.s. Listen to Deep Sleep Panda on Spotify, Best Sleeping Music in the West 🇺🇸🇺🇦
The next elections in Ukraine will be a mess. Russian meddling and disinformation, and who knows what Trump is going to do.
Hopeless.
Why cant they rest even at Christmas? Chill the fuck out guys
Big F’in no on Article 5 prot and Ukraine /US free trade. Also development package needs to be fully funded by Europe
Not gonna happen. The only way this ends is Europe fully backing Ukraine until Russia’s economy reaches a crisis point. Only then will they agree to reasonable terms
A peacetime cap on the Ukrainian military to 800,000 personnel
Sure
Btw this peace plan is not going to happen.
That’s 20 more than Trump would be willing to read.
Russia is just getting everything now. Ukraine must be so desperate, I wonder what’s pushing this, if it’s the US threats or just knowing this Winter is gonna be especially brutal and people just can’t go on.
The fucked up thing now is all the spinning up of arms manufacturing, Europe will stand down because Russia will look less like a threat, it’s gonna be a weird time. I just don’t see the posturing staying in place as Russia is absolutely decimated
I bet Trump is forcing this with threats because he’s not getting his way and he wants his bribes and everyone to say he created a peace.
One potential upside is this is some sort of ploy; give in and give in and give in, and then when Russia says no they finally have enough to show Trump that Russia can only be stopped by force.