Bill C-2 would make it a crime to accept more than $10,000 in cash as a payment.
A comment in another thread raised an interesting point: this isn’t indexed to inflation. If one assumes even moderate inflation this results in a general ban on cash altogether perhaps sooner than is generally realized.
If we went through a period of inflation akin to the late 1970s or early 1980s the average rent payment – and wage – could soon be over $10,000 a month, making it illegal to pay your rent in cash, or for that matter, get your weekly pay in cash.
But that’s perhaps a feature and not a bug of the bill.
MCRN_Admiral on
If we want to truly go cashless, we need to build a public alternative to the **credit card monopoly** – perhaps look to India, and their UPI system, which has been a resounding success AND helps prevent corruption and laundering.
grathontolarsdatarod on
Yeah no way.
Generally speaking, it isn’t the banks‘ or the governments‘ business what I do with my money at any given point.
Period.
Private citizen is, and means, private citizen.
Its bad enough the banks share depository information with the government in order to „guide“ policy.
If we did this we would be hooped. Entirely.
Market research after a law like this basically becomes moot. You’ll just have to subscribe to whatever is offered to you.
No negotiation, no consumer power. This is the economy version of capitalism that is analogous to China’s version of democracy. Chinese can vote for any candidate they want, it just has to be an approved candidate.
This is assault style legislation.
green_tory on
>“If you use your cellphone to pay for everything, what will you do when the power goes out?” he said in an interview. “After a day or two, your battery is going to die and you’ll be going hungry.” Cash never breaks.
Oh hey, a doomsday hypothetical that occurs *at least once a year* out here on Vancouver Island.
What do I do? *I don’t spend money*, for the most part. Having a few days‘ worth of food and gasoline on hand is *generally* a good idea. I know not everyone can afford it, but the services that support those in need tend to remain open despite the lack of power.
Moreover, even though I usually have cash on hand many stores and gas stations run out of change quickly, or don’t even bother to open because their tills are … electric.
>Cash is equally beneficial against hackers and hostile nations. Cash use spiked in Ukraine following the Russian invasion in 2022, as it has throughout Europe.
When your country is being attacked then yes, basic financial infrastructure is often inaccessible. But also, hoarding food and gasoline is as prudent as hoarding gold and cash, if not more so. This is an *extreme* situation.
>Twelve per cent of adult Canadians do not have a credit card and must rely on cash to survive.
They may not qualify for credit, but they can certainly use debit.
>Victims of domestic abuse are often advised to build a secret stockpile of banknotes as a “getaway fund.”
A separate bank account is *more secure* than a pile of cash, which the abuser might find. But also, this is an *inadequate housing* problem, where emergency housing simply *isn’t available* to many.
>Cash is king on most First Nation reserves. And many elderly people simply lack the desire to figure out new-fangled payment apps.
Debit cards have been around for generations now; both of these are most likely an issue of trust.
Fact is, even if it’s an alleged 4% increase in revenue we’re leaving on the table that’s *not insignificant*. Cash is king with contractors and drug dealers around these parts, and the *cash discount* is real. Paying cash often doesn’t just save you on the GST, but you’re also treated to overall lower billings because you’re seen as being part of the anti-tax in-group.
Canuck-overseas on
Interesting story in NYT recently….about homeless and street performers in NYC; as more society goes cashless, fewer people are carrying around spare change to give. It really makes you think.
drewbielefou on
Siderant here:
Instead of calling transactions „cashless“ when you use a card, call them „bankless“ when you use cash.
People say they hate bureaucracy because they think it only means government. But people *love* bureaucracy… When it comes to inviting major corporations to issue cards, charge you fees and insurance, track your spending, hire customer service for said cards, aggregate consumer data, sell the consumer data, and profit off your everyday purchases, all while setting up programs to incentivize you to spend more than you need to or even what you have so they can collect more data and profit.
It’s just so much more efficient than like, taking out some twenties from the ABM, using them, and throwing the loose change in a piggy bank for a rainy day.
Cards have their place! They’re convenient and important. But it’s strange that cash is almost discouraged at every turn these days. Its embarassing how I can’t even get a fiver out to pay for coffee before the cashier has slammed a few buttons and I’m prompted to pay by card on the machine. And they don’t even ask first! 🙂
Macqt on
Isn’t cash a legal requirement? I remember a restaurant in Toronto getting clowned by the public and government for only taking cards. Public argument was that it’s anti-poor people, and governments argument was that, as cash is legal tender, businesses are required to accept it no matter what they prefer.
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Bill C-2 would make it a crime to accept more than $10,000 in cash as a payment.
A comment in another thread raised an interesting point: this isn’t indexed to inflation. If one assumes even moderate inflation this results in a general ban on cash altogether perhaps sooner than is generally realized.
If we went through a period of inflation akin to the late 1970s or early 1980s the average rent payment – and wage – could soon be over $10,000 a month, making it illegal to pay your rent in cash, or for that matter, get your weekly pay in cash.
But that’s perhaps a feature and not a bug of the bill.
If we want to truly go cashless, we need to build a public alternative to the **credit card monopoly** – perhaps look to India, and their UPI system, which has been a resounding success AND helps prevent corruption and laundering.
Yeah no way.
Generally speaking, it isn’t the banks‘ or the governments‘ business what I do with my money at any given point.
Period.
Private citizen is, and means, private citizen.
Its bad enough the banks share depository information with the government in order to „guide“ policy.
If we did this we would be hooped. Entirely.
Market research after a law like this basically becomes moot. You’ll just have to subscribe to whatever is offered to you.
No negotiation, no consumer power. This is the economy version of capitalism that is analogous to China’s version of democracy. Chinese can vote for any candidate they want, it just has to be an approved candidate.
This is assault style legislation.
>“If you use your cellphone to pay for everything, what will you do when the power goes out?” he said in an interview. “After a day or two, your battery is going to die and you’ll be going hungry.” Cash never breaks.
Oh hey, a doomsday hypothetical that occurs *at least once a year* out here on Vancouver Island.
What do I do? *I don’t spend money*, for the most part. Having a few days‘ worth of food and gasoline on hand is *generally* a good idea. I know not everyone can afford it, but the services that support those in need tend to remain open despite the lack of power.
Moreover, even though I usually have cash on hand many stores and gas stations run out of change quickly, or don’t even bother to open because their tills are … electric.
>Cash is equally beneficial against hackers and hostile nations. Cash use spiked in Ukraine following the Russian invasion in 2022, as it has throughout Europe.
When your country is being attacked then yes, basic financial infrastructure is often inaccessible. But also, hoarding food and gasoline is as prudent as hoarding gold and cash, if not more so. This is an *extreme* situation.
>Twelve per cent of adult Canadians do not have a credit card and must rely on cash to survive.
They may not qualify for credit, but they can certainly use debit.
>Victims of domestic abuse are often advised to build a secret stockpile of banknotes as a “getaway fund.”
A separate bank account is *more secure* than a pile of cash, which the abuser might find. But also, this is an *inadequate housing* problem, where emergency housing simply *isn’t available* to many.
>Cash is king on most First Nation reserves. And many elderly people simply lack the desire to figure out new-fangled payment apps.
Debit cards have been around for generations now; both of these are most likely an issue of trust.
Fact is, even if it’s an alleged 4% increase in revenue we’re leaving on the table that’s *not insignificant*. Cash is king with contractors and drug dealers around these parts, and the *cash discount* is real. Paying cash often doesn’t just save you on the GST, but you’re also treated to overall lower billings because you’re seen as being part of the anti-tax in-group.
Interesting story in NYT recently….about homeless and street performers in NYC; as more society goes cashless, fewer people are carrying around spare change to give. It really makes you think.
Siderant here:
Instead of calling transactions „cashless“ when you use a card, call them „bankless“ when you use cash.
People say they hate bureaucracy because they think it only means government. But people *love* bureaucracy… When it comes to inviting major corporations to issue cards, charge you fees and insurance, track your spending, hire customer service for said cards, aggregate consumer data, sell the consumer data, and profit off your everyday purchases, all while setting up programs to incentivize you to spend more than you need to or even what you have so they can collect more data and profit.
It’s just so much more efficient than like, taking out some twenties from the ABM, using them, and throwing the loose change in a piggy bank for a rainy day.
Cards have their place! They’re convenient and important. But it’s strange that cash is almost discouraged at every turn these days. Its embarassing how I can’t even get a fiver out to pay for coffee before the cashier has slammed a few buttons and I’m prompted to pay by card on the machine. And they don’t even ask first! 🙂
Isn’t cash a legal requirement? I remember a restaurant in Toronto getting clowned by the public and government for only taking cards. Public argument was that it’s anti-poor people, and governments argument was that, as cash is legal tender, businesses are required to accept it no matter what they prefer.