Wie Belgien Putin einen unerwarteten Sieg bescherte
https://www.politico.eu/article/belgium-russia-bart-de-wever-moscow-funds-brussels-bank-ukraine-war/
Von RifleSoldier
Wie Belgien Putin einen unerwarteten Sieg bescherte
https://www.politico.eu/article/belgium-russia-bart-de-wever-moscow-funds-brussels-bank-ukraine-war/
Von RifleSoldier
43 Kommentare
By sticking within the bounds of legality? Fuck us, right?
EU guarantee or fuck all the way off.
Yep, it’s all Belgium’s fault.
That it would tear apart centuries of practice, lower trust in Euroclear even further and expose Belgium to huge financial losses is immaterial.
If the issue is so straightforward, a cast-iron guarantee by other EU states could be given. It’s not being offered – I wonder why.
The writer is an idiot.
Everyone blaims Belgium for not daring to confiscate it yet they don’t dare to give Belgium direct guarantees on the sum, interest, legal costs either.
The risk is about 30.000€ per Belgian household. Double that for interests and legal costs etc…. That’s not nothing.
It would also be the first such confiscation in history. Maybe with a reason?
Euroclear in Brussels is the backbone of the European financial industry. Loss of trust in it will not only hurt Belgium but the whole European financial industry. Confiscation must therefore be decided on an European level.
Most Belgians are pro confiscation but with FULL (also intrest etc) and DIRECT guarantees (not from the EU but from other EU-countries) and by a decision taken by the EU and not by Belgium alone.
“He told his peers that the risk of retaliation by the Russians for expropriating their sovereign assets was too great to contemplate. In the event that Moscow won a legal challenge against Belgium or Euroclear, the Brussels depository holding the assets, they would be on the hook to repay the entire amount, on their own. ‘That’s completely insane,’ he said.”
They still believe the “old world order” will return one day and this war is just a temporary obstruction to their business, a mere inconvenience. Cute.
So cool how we are getting treated as the bad guys for not being willing to risk bankrupting the entire fucking country, doing something that has no legal basis and has never been done before, without getting any proper guarantees from our supposed biggest allies.
Even so, we will probably be forced to do so on the 18th of december so I don’t know what the fuss is about
If Belgium gets condemned it can lead to bankruptcy of the whole country. If European countries wants to really go that way and use russian assets they have to guarantee that they will stand behind Belgium instead of putting all the blame on them, absolutely ridiculous.
>The assorted prime ministers and presidents were so convinced by their plan for the loan that they were already arguing among themselves over how the money should be spent … But when the discussion broke up for lunch without agreement on raiding the Russian cash, reality dawned: Modest Belgium, a country of 12 million people, was not going to allow the so-called reparations loan to happen at all.
When you’re in an abusive relationship but you’re not aware of it yet. It’s not how Belgium handed Putin an unexpected victory, it’s how the EU forced Putin to have an unexpected victory. None of this should have happened to begin with. Yet for whatever reason, the larger European nation’s want someone to be blamed for it all, because even the collective failures over the past few years to aid Ukraine, they cannot even share THAT amongst themselves.
>De Wever is worried the stability of the euro itself could be undermined if a raid on Euroclear forced investors to think again about placing their assets in European banks.
Screw the stability of the euro at this point, protect Belgium no matter what from this absolute stitch up job that should be unbecoming of the European **Union**.
This questions the actual unity of Europe
The Russians simply wrote into Trump’s plan that the frozen assets will become American money(or rather, the money of Trump’s friends) and are now happily watching Europe tear itself apart in internal squabbles.
I’ve posted this elsewhere allready, but i’ll just post it here again:
This story is missing some important facts that rarely get mentioned. The simple story is that there is a stack of Russian cash blocked somewhere in Brussels, ready for grabs if only Belgium wouldn’t be such a coward.
Some facts:
– The money is with Euroclear. That is not a government institution but a private company providing important international financial services.
– The Belgian government can’t just grab that money: In a law-based democracy, the state can’t just grab this cash at will. Laws have to be changed and a strong legal case has to be build to do so.
– If Belgium confiscates the Russian money, the country will be targeted by numerous law-suits from Russia and there is a big chance that a judge will rule this illegal and order Belgium to pay back the money.
– 140B Euro is a huge sum for a country like Belgium to pay back. The government has been struggling to the edge of falling to find 9B for the normal budget, wich isn’t even enough.
– Prime Minister De Wever didn’t rule out actually doing it, but he mentioned those legal concerns and the severe financial risk for Belgium.
– Upon asking the fellow EU partners to share that risk they turned him down, saying „We can’t expose our countries to these legal and financial risks“, thereby proving Belgium’s exact point.
– Mr De Wever is not pro-Russian, as i’ve read in some places: I didn’t vote for him but i’ve read many interviews with him and i’d say he is pro-Ukrainian.
Instead of pushing Belgium to take risks it cannot take, EU should focus on:
– Building a strong legal case for this operation.
– Ensure the risk is spread along all the countries willing to help Ukraine
– Prepare for the fallout of this operation because this could have much wider consequences. Russia and its allies could threaten to confiscate European assets in Russia. Foreign countries will now hesitate to make use of financial services such as Euroclear provides because they aren’t as save as they thought.
That said, i would love to see it happen, as part of a more serious strategy that states a Ukrainian victory as the desired endpoint of this war, „whatever it takes“. That’s the only course of action that can actually challenge Putins theory of victory.
Wtf is wrong with the EU? Why is Belgium getting focused this much. Not a single country would accept this ever. It would be Greece 2.0 . Not good for the EU sentiment which is already not great in Belgium atm.
Is confiscation of Russian assets legally controversial? Yes, yes it is.
Is the solution of „advanced reparation payment“ legally possible? Yes, yes it is.
Would it hurt trust in the European financial system? Kinda yes, but most countries do not start wars with over a million casualties. So perhaps one needs to draw a line somewhere.
Did Belgian politicians got spooked out, bowed to their bankers and said Russia never gonna loose, completely humiliating the whole country, while trying to frame it as resistance to EU bureaucrats? Yes, yes they did.
Multiple things are true at the same time, which makes it rather complicated.
Belgium is in fact being reasonable with its demands. This is something that should be done at a European level, so take the assets from Belgium’s hands and take the responsibility of handing them to Ukraine as a union. The parliament could be working towards this rather than trying to force a single nation to shoulder the risks.
This is such bullshit trying to scapegoat Belgium. The EU wants to wage a war on a scale not seen since ww2 through Ukraine, but they are unwilling to pay the price out of fear their taxpayers will revolt. So now they came up with this unprecedented plan to confiscate a sum of money the size of Belgiums entire annual gdp and still they are unwilling to share the full risk. Fuck off Von der Leyen and co, this is how you create Eurosceptics.
Either the other EU countries agree to share the risk, or they shut the fuck up.. If they don’t agree it’s because they find the risk too big. And if it’s too big for them, why should Belgium take it?
Politico is a Russian propaganda machine to try and divide Europe..
Crazy how everyone is mad at Belgium when literally no country on earth would do it for exactly the same reasons Belgium isn’t either
Great article. Hive mind here doesn’t agree but great summary of Europe.
I have said it before and I will say it again: Politico is an American-owned anti-European business, using ragebait headlines and gossip to draw attention and make revenue.
Stop giving this „European Fox News“ credibility. They are making money off your outrage. It’s all they do.
Edit: not American-owned, but American-founded as pointed out in the comments.
They can give the money to Romania to safe keep, as Russia kept out [treasure](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_Treasure) since WW1 and never returned it.
Yeah sure, my country is the problem. Boooo, bad country.
Gesticulate more EU, blame the small country that don’t want to handle such a huge risk for us.
Go to hell bureaucrats
While the politicians are still bickering I’ve been donating €50/month to u24.gov.ua to help pay for Ukraine’s defence. Is anyone else doing more than just making comments on social media?
If Putin isn’t stopped in Ukraine it’s going to cost us all a lot more. Even USAians won’t be able to escape the consequences of a new world war.
At this point Politico is just a propaganda vehicle for the EU.
There is not a single PM in the world that should agree with any plan if that makes their country on the hook for billions of euros.
The fact that VDL thought they could just push this on Belgium and did not prepare a legal way to get Ukraine the money is so extremely incompetent that Belgium, together with any other serieus EU country, should push for her resignation.
A summary: the EU is considering confiscating the money of a country they’re not officially at war with from a private company based on questionable legal grounds. Furthermore, it is unwilling to provide sufficient guarantees to the country most at risk of bankruptcy due to the repercussions of this decision. It has to do all this because they are unable to convince Hungary to vote for a European backed loan.
Belgium has every right to be angry with the EU! They literally want the illegal Russian asset dealer killed, but without any guarantees or support from the EU… it’s a mess, I know, and as for Russia, it might lose, but the EU reacted extremely late and insufficiently. The UK and Poland did much more individually.
I don’t get why Belgium gets all that sh-t. They are constantly being pressured to seize Russian assets, which multiple legal experts have confirmed will be illegal and probably be reversed by a court. But when they ask: „Can you at least all pitch in with some collateral for the very likely case of this going to court and us losing the case?“, the reply is: „Yeah, your concerns are perfectly understandable, but you should do it anyway and we’ll figure it out later“. Belgium: „So, you guys will pitch in?“. EU: „F-ck no“. Who in their right mind will see this context and blame Belgium?
what is this load of crap. why would belgium ever want to be seeing as a country that can just seize another country’s asset? and it sets a dangerous precedent, cause the other two countries that are likely to invade other countries are china and the US. i guess it’s fine if belgium seize chinese fund when it attacks taiwan, but would it keep consistent if US invades another country?
This is like the scene from life of Brian, when the lady comes to warn their mates that they are crucifying Brian and then they deliberate how to save him
And about law based democracy (a little bit „howaboutism“). How would you comment on selling a company to China, I assume for money, and then taking control over it by force, which resulted in a world spread semiconductor parts crisis?
Belgium didn´t hand Putin anything. Other leaders who want to Belgium to have a € 200 billion risk hanging like Damocles´ sword above our head did.
Like Friedrich Merde
„Merz is particularly agitated. He worries that it will be his country’s taxpayers who have to step in unless the assets loan goes ahead.“
Politico should stop with clickbait headlines and biased ´reporting´. Or consider changing its name to EuroFox News.
Just ban politico posts already. Useless.
You all do understand that the EU will have return the money and assets and the profits to Russia eventually, right? The naivete is very sweet but you know, we have to be realistic. The EU is not above Russia.
*How the EU handed Putin an expected victory by refusing to give Belgium guarantees and now uses us as a scapegoat
And ban Politico of this sub.
„He told his peers that the risk of retaliation by the Russians for expropriating their sovereign assets was too great to contemplate.“
Meanwhile tiny Denmark is being accused of escalating the war between Russia and Ukraine and could be a target for Russia.
Reason being the construction of a factory in Denmark that can produce rocket fuel. If all goes well the factory can deliver sometime in 2027.
That means there is fuck all sincerity in Russian desire for peace. They will keep making excuses to not sign a peace treaty.
https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/seneste/rusland-ukrainsk-forsvarsvirksomhed-i-danmark-udgoer-risiko-eskalering
I think one of the most toxic, least helpful attitudes I’ve seen develop lately is to assume anyone that disagrees with you in any way over how Europe ought to address the complicated Ukraine situation must be some kind of paid Russian bot or stooge or troll.
It’s hard because….paid shill accounts surely exist. But I don’t see how normal Europeans are ever supposed to be able to forge a consensus or unity over this issue if they spend all their time attacking each other for being Putin stooges.
What’s really tiresome is that I’m now old enough to have seen all this play out the same way before, with the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. Remember all the absolute silliness from back then? Surrender monkeys? Freedom Fries? Cancelling the Dixie Chicks because they said maybe it wasn’t necessary to go to war with literally every middle eastern country?
There is something about viewing geopolitics as a team based ‚us vs them‘ struggle that makes humans utterly shut down and be totally unwilling to listen to even the most mild forms of disagreement.
Yeah, right, let’s say it’s Belgium’s fault and they are traitors…
Wth
Belgium is not in an official war with Russia, there are no **fully** legal reasons to confiscate these assets.
So there will be cases in international arbitration.
And you know what? Russia can win this suit, it is at least 50-50, and I’m afraid it is even worse for Belgium
And that can and will literally bankrupt Belgium, they just don’t have a few hundred billion to spare
Hell, the whole EU does not have this money to spare, the EU can’t give Belgium these guarantees, it is just not affordable.
And if you have even a 1% chance to lose this case, you absolutely don’t risk the whole country’s economy
Even if the money would be used in the war effort. Shall we buy more unused surplus old American weapons for top dollars with it? The amount of money for outdated weapons is becoming shameful.
ah, TIL that the EU is actually Belgium.
Get real guys, you’re expecting one country to take the fall for something *you* want to do. Take responsibility for your own policies or pound sand.
Why doesn‘t Europe back this choice of reattribution of war money up?
Russia must be laughing to see that we are not retaliating because it is contrary to “international law”. Who will come and make us pay the fine?
Funny how eu is democratic for one thing and not others. Circus.
I would like the money to be used to support Ukraine.
It also seems reasonable to me that Belgium wants the full backing of the rest of the EU if they’re going to do this.
If that full backing is not forthcoming, it seems reasonable to me to blame the EU countries that are not willing to back up Belgium collectively rather than blame Belgium specifically.
This all is nothing but a mere shameful display of the so-called „European solidarity“.
* The whole premise that it’s a loan to Ukraine, which will be repaid by Russia in reparations is already ridiculous on its own. That will never happen. That money will be gone. But since we play Human vs Orc, we kind of have to stick by the book and risk ending up in a legal fight and have to cough this up.
* Even if this path is walked (which Belgium is not opposed to unless solid guarantees or given), apparently it is too much asked from the other member states to back up this amount of money. As in: put it on paper, and not some words.
* This could cause a major stir in the financial market. It’s unprecedented.
* Putting the responsability on 1 member state, meanwhile also throwing overboard the EU „membership unanimity“. You know, that same shit that prevents us to throw out Hungary apparently.
* Leaves us the fuckin‘ question: **why doesn’t the EU just borrow money?** Play by the book. Every country takes an equal share of the „blow“, but everybody is prepared to share the cost. The proposal of De Wever is not stupid. But apparently that needs unanimity and that’s a path they don’t want to walk … Well that’s kind of ironic: u could also say „screw unanimity“ on this one …
Politico is a POS wannabe politics channel.