Das irische Vermögen erreicht einen Rekordwert von 1,3 Billionen Euro, aber die Haushalte haben Angst, es in Aktien oder Wertpapiere zu investieren
https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/economy/arid-41752323.html
Von john-cash-
Das irische Vermögen erreicht einen Rekordwert von 1,3 Billionen Euro, aber die Haushalte haben Angst, es in Aktien oder Wertpapiere zu investieren
https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/economy/arid-41752323.html
Von john-cash-
31 Kommentare
It feels like investments beyond property are not very encouraged in Ireland
Afraid? No.
Afraid of 33% capital gains tax, yes.
What clickbait. It’s not fear, it’s the fact that every investment in stocks and shares gets penalised via deemed disposal and extra tax on ETFs
„Irish people unwilling to gamble with their money in a system that American Billionaires can manipulate with a Tweet“
The perception here is that stocks and shares are only for very very wealthy individuals who probably live in other countries. Revenue absolutely crucifies you for any profits you make and there’s a whole load of frightening bureaucracy around it – the net result is most of us go „ah sure that’s something they do somewhere else…“ and at most they go off and invest in property speculation, because that is incentivised and known about.
It is so much hassle to trade on a small basis here that it’s just not worth it for most people.
We’re great at saying everything’s „cultural“ when in reality it’s blatantly structural. There’s no investment culture because there’s been a long history of structures in place to make sure that it is something that’s very unattractive to do.
Even compared to the Northern Ireland and the UK, the Republic’s an awful location for anyone who’s investing in stocks and shares. You’d actually be far better off emigrating to Britain if you’re going to do that and I don’t think we’ll look into modernising or progressing this, as there’s a massive tall poppy thing around it too.
It would be very beneficial to Ireland to get some of the speculative focus off housing and onto Irish stocks and shares actually too. We might even have a VC market for domestic tech and a whole little eco system beginning to thrive, but nah – do ye think you’re in California? — just keep focusing on American FDI dependency and tax the bejayus out of anything useful.
We should be leveraging the money we have at the moment to build something much better – what worries me is we’ll squander the boom and it might never repeat and be left standing with very little to show for it in terms of domestic investment and businesses.
Capital gains are too high to even bother in Ireland.
Deemed disposal.
The government could reverse this with the stroke of a pen and take some heat out of property.
We need a stocks and shares ISA like in the UK to encourage small investments.
Remember remember the Eircom sale. Those shares were all but worthless by the end.
I’d say that experience will have put off many.
Why would they choose such shit way of investing here?
You also get taxed to the hilt for it.
That’s why everyone obsesses over property as an investment instead.
It’s a shame that the government aren’t willing to support tax reform if not tax free investment accounts like in the UK or the US.
It’s mad that in Belfast one can invest £20k a year tax free and in Dublin you’ve got deemed disposal rules.
Many have said it but what’s stops me is the tax. It quite punishing to invest here. There’s little to no upside on the risk taken. When compared to property there’s no competition in my mind.
If the government changed that I’d invest more in stocks / shares over property
Maybe it’s because the fecking tax environment is incentivising people towards property.
Is the wealth in the room with us now??
Afraid lol. Just get rid of deemed disposal.
They should test this thesis by making it CGT free
Yes, my landlord is very wealthy
People love to complain about FF and FG and call them right wing, but that is patently not true. They are pretty left of centre all things considered. Everything in the Irish tax system is designed to smooth out outcomes. To ensure that the bottom end is looked after and at the other end, that top PAYE earners cannot become wealthy
Ireland has one of the most progressive tax system in the OECD. There may be a big gross income disparity, but not a big net income disparity, after you take into account social supports at the bottom and tax at the top. There is a huge transfer of income from top to bottom. Net income disparity is far less than other countries.
This is from 2021 but explains it well
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/income-inequality-in-ireland-the-devil-is-in-the-detail-1.4653255
Debunking Irish income tax myths | The Journal https://cdn.thejournal.ie/media/2014/09/debunking-irish-income-tax-myths.pdf
At the lower end you have lots of people paying no tax at all, HAP/social housing, social welfare/job seekers, single parents allowance, rental caps, fuel allowances, strong tenancy laws which make eviction near impossible, rent capped to income on social housing and no controls over social housing tenants not paying rent, people keeping social housing for life even when income increases, medical cards, no cap on child allowance etc….
At the other end you have 52% tax that starts at a very low threshold, highest rate of CGT in the OECD, huge inheritance tax, deemed disposal on investment funds, DIRT, low interest rates on savings, limitations on pension contributions, tax on pensions when you drawdown, rent caps & income tax & CGT on investment properties, BIK tax etc.
The Irish tax system is designed to smooth out outcomes. So people at the lower end who don’t work at all should have somewhere to live, enough to eat, the ability to give their kids an education, access to free healthcare, support for as many kids as they choose to have. At the other end, top PAYE earners can’t build any significant wealth to retire early (the FIRE principles don’t work here). They have to keep working and paying tax.
Of course it’s not equal, it can’t and shouldn’t be. People who don’t work at all should not have the exact same lifestyle and wealth as someone who earns in the top 10%. Of course people not working or on minimum wage will struggle. But it’s not as massive a disparity as many think, and nowhere near as big as in many comparable countries.
Ireland is very unfriendly to high income PAYE earners. The whole FIRE movement is pretty much impossible to achieve in Ireland. As a PAYE earner, it’s not possible to build any wealth. Everything is designed to prevent it, and restribute instead. Business owners (who were traditionally the wealth class in Ireland) are the only ones who can structure their money to build wealth.
I’m too much of a scaredy cat when it comes to paying tax 🙀
Stupid question, if you open a brokerage account elsewhere and buy Irish stocks are they subject to the same taxes?
CGT to 20% and I’m in
Such bullshit, the middleclass is being made work itself to death, the young are leaving unless they can afford an over priced shed in the back garden and renters are perma trapped in limbo. I call bollox.
The “fear” is imposed by punitive government taxation that exists only to prop up real estate valuations.
Ireland is seriously missing out on an ISA product like in the UK.
Can barely pay the fuckin esb bill
33% on returns puts people off for sure. I’ve been living in Canada and we have tax free savings accounts where your returns are not subject to tax (unlike everything else in Canada)
What’s the point when you’ve to meticulously keep records, and then pay tax on unrealised gains
So how much of this wealth is tied to family homes , or property?
Property prices have gone up a lot in the last few years so if bet much of this „wealth“ is all paper
A new report from the Central Bank shows that average household wealth has more than doubled over the past decade,… 👀
The stock market is looking a bit toppy right now. I’d be staying cautious for a while yet.
There isn’t one single reason why Irish people don’t invest more in equities, there’s a multitude:
1. Poor financial literacy levels. Most Irish don’t understand how markets work, the impact of compounding returns and other fundamentals that would lead people towards sensible investing
2. Poor history with high profile investments. Everyone has heard multiple stories about losses on Eircom and bank shares. They’ve left scares in the culture. Any good financial advisor would warn you off investing in only 1 or even a very small number of shares. Good sensible investments are well diversified
3. Many link shares with gambling or extreme risk. For some, that’s the attraction, either the excitement or the chance to get rich quick. Whereas, good investment strategies are neither, they’re boring and slow.
4. Fear about timing it wrong. „My luck, the day I invest, it’ll all go belly up“. If you’ve a long term out look, time in the market is far more important than timing the market
5. Taxation. Tax on investment funds and EFT’s, usually the best way for an non expert to invest, is currently 41%, if you invest through a life assurance company, you pay a 1% levy on the way in and you pay tax on your gains every 8 years, even if you don’t sell. Whereas property investment capital gains are taxed at 33% and have no deemed disposal.
6. We love property. There’s probably a thesis on why we love property in Ireland due to our colonial past. That aside, we can understand a property investment easier than an equity investment in how it works. We can also borrow to leverage up a property investment. Most don’t realize that this massively increases the risk of the investment, but the same people often think shares are too risky.
7. Access to advice. A lot of people don’t know where to get good advice. Will a broker just flog me the product that pays them most commission? Will an advisor from the investment company tell me everything? Do I have to pay for advice up front? If I don’t, will I pay in the long run in fees? Is an advisor only really for rich people? A lot of this is daunting and off putting for many.
8. Not understanding inflation risk on money on deposit. Most think their money is safe on deposit. €10,000 will still be €10,000 if left in a low interest account for 10 years. The number is the same but the value is greatly reduced. Inflation will reduce the buying power of that money over time. It’s not even maybe, it’s a definite. The only way to manage that risk is through some form of investment, which many won’t choose because there’s a possibility of a risk to their capital. They don’t see there’s a risk either way.