Als das Franco-German-FCAS-Kampfflugzeugprojekt zusammenbricht, verbreiteten sich Gerüchte, dass Deutschland dem GCAP-Kampfflugzeugprogramm von Italien, Japan und Großbritannien beitreten könnte.
Von minos83
Als das Franco-German-FCAS-Kampfflugzeugprojekt zusammenbricht, verbreiteten sich Gerüchte, dass Deutschland dem GCAP-Kampfflugzeugprogramm von Italien, Japan und Großbritannien beitreten könnte.
Von minos83
27 Kommentare
**Big news ahead for the GCAP programme.**
The GCAP programme for the construction of a new sixth generation fighter jet, lead by the United Kingdom, Italy and Japan, is getting ready to expand towards various other countries that are strongly interested in the project.
Among them there is Germany, which is currently dealing with the collapse of the similar FCAS/SCAF programme “co-managed” with France and Spain, and with Belgium which, despite the complaints by Dassault Aviation due to the Belgian Aird Force currently buying F-35A from Lockheed Martin, his also currently a costumer [of the FCAS jet].
**The debacle of the FCAS/SCAF programme.**
The FCAS/SCAF programme, despite the government attempts to avert the collision course between Dassault Aviation and Airbus, has never surpassed the fundamental problems concerning the division of the workload and the control shares, bringing the situation to a complete stall with the initial timetable accumulating delays incompatible with the original schedule-
Berlin and Paris have met multiple times in the attempt to overcome these differences but the two industrial complexes have stayed on irreconcilable positions.
It has now become impossible to meet the initially agreed deadlines and the hypothesis to abandon the whole tri-national programme is becoming more and more likely while the attempt by both the French and the Germans to lay the blame on the other side is already becoming secondary.
**The German hypothesis.**
The point is that at Berlin, while already being part of the F-35A programme, they now find themselves having to evaluate various options, from the quite unlikely and complicated plan to do it alone, to a possible collaboration with the Swedish Saab with which is already in play with for the likely acquisition of GlobalEye aircraft for the Luftwaffe’s early radar surveillance, up to some sort of collaboration with the GCAP programme.
While the United Kingdom, who is neither denying nor confirming these rumors, is looking at the possible enlargement of the [GCAP] programme to Germany.
**The possible German collaboration with GCAP.**
At the moment, the German collaboration with the programme, which has been formed by the United Kingdom, Japan and Italy, might center on the Loyal Wingman drones which represents an important aspect of the project, as it will be tasked with important combat and support missions to the manned aircrafts.
The German collaboration could thus be centered on this aspect, given the highly advanced technological level reached by the German industry in the sectors of autonomous and remote-controlled aircrafts as well as the development of artificial intelligence for combat aircrafts.
As an extreme solution, Germany could opt for their own version of GCAP, with a strong participation of their own industries, an aircraft of course entirely aimed to fulfill Germany’s requirements and maybe also Spain’s, without having to undermine the export potential of the main variant.
**The possibility of new members.**
Of course, as is clearly stated in the accords that regulate the GCAP programme, the extension of the project to other countries must first be discussed and approved unanimously by all three founding states.
It must be noted that, besides the possible German interest, there is also Saudia Arabia’s already public intention of joining the programme, mostly as a financial contributor and only secondarily as a technology partner, as well as the interest expressed by other countries who are getting closer to the GCAP.
The GCAP, contrary to the similar FCAS/SCAF, is proceeding on much more solid foundations thanks to the certain division of labor, the recognition of equal 33% shares between the three states, and the already accomplished creation of the joint company that will oversee the project, and of the other consortiums that will manage the engine and the electronic suite.
Article written by Aurelio Giansiracusa, first published by Ares Osservatorio Difesa 30/09/2025, manually translated by u/minos83.
Germany are welcome to buy, we don’t want them to start trying for the workshare shit like they did with the Eurofighter.
No thanks. Germany is a PITA to work with. GCAP is proceeding along just fine at the moment.
I happen to think there should be 2 x 6th Gen programs in Europe, you don’t want all your eggs in one basket so hopefully Germany will knuckle under and find a way to work with France. Germany is more than welcome to purchase GCAP as a customer should the French prove impossible to work with.
Germany blocked UK’s eurofighter sales to Saudi Arabia and Turkey. And now they want to join GCAP too. No thanks.
I don’t believe that. Why would Germany give up the lead on the loyal wingman, 50% of the ngf engine and a noticeable work share of the ngf fighter itself in exchange to build a loyal wingman for gcap?
It’s hilarious how much some are trying to push narrative, that Germany can become a partner in GCAP xD
Germany can join but they won’t have contributed anything to date and as such, shouldn’t have much sway in major decisions going forward with GCAP. If they’re in, you don’t get major changes for German needs unless it also suits other nations.
Daily dose of FCAS gossip
To torpedo another important project, sure.
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Germany can join and take charge of the paintjob, the plumbing and the cleaning subprogramme.
Germany: we shot this one down, who’s next?
I feel like this is gonna end with the UK, Japan, Italy, Germany, and Sweden all flying the same jet while France is making planes for India.
gcap should kick the UK out and replace them with Germany and they can finally rename the program the neo-Axis joint fighter program /s
I want a german led Jet called „Panzerüberschallkampflugzeug Adler „
France is the literal worst partner in weapons programs. Almost everytime it’s the same thing, they want more control and more of the project produced in France. France is the number 2 arms dealer and their military industrial lobbyist always ask for more.
Damn if only we could all get along and try to put some differences aside. Everyone wants the bigger bite.
And best of luck to them ! (And to the UK for that matter).
Germans want you to think think that france is the problem
But if you take a look at the eurofighter, you ll see how germany made it a shitshow.
France is perfectly capable to create great joint product as seen with Italy (best frigate in the world, adopted by the Americans), or the uk (stormshadow, meteor)
*as buyer / producer when the plane is done
yeah everything europe is just collapsing these days..you know what’s not collapsing? döner prices..they just keep inflating
I wonder if theres a route in via the development of the wingman options , which im not sure has had a lot of agreement or development yet. I cant see any obvious easy way in to the partnership for the actual gcap plane.
The plane will be flying in the sky, and the tabloids will continue to say that the project is near collapse…
Now that Dassault is constructing a second factory to meet the surging demand for its Rafale, the company is confident it can develop its own fighter independently and turn it into another success story, just like it did with the Mirage and Rafale.
The challenge with developing a fighter jet involving multiple countries is the overall organization of the R&D and the supply chain, where no one has previously worked together on such a complex project. This lack of experience is a major drawback.
Dassault, however, already has an established supply chain in place and can reuse many prototyping and testing facilities/tools and even design elements from existing programs, making the process far more efficient than relying on foreign partners with inexperienced teams that haven’t built such a fighter jet in the last 20 years, meanwhile Dassault has constantly upgraded it’s Rafale after those planes were involved in real combat missions.
Jus like Lockheed Martin had extensive data from the F-22’s design and operations to develop the F-35, Dassault possesses similar resources from its Rafale program that would greatly aid in developing its own indigenous fighter. This approach seems like a better solution even for the French government representing a nuclear-armed nation with technology it cannot share with other partners.
Not to mention, with so many international partners involved, there’s a higher risk that russia and china could more easily infiltrate the program, unlike if it were developed by a single country.
I’m glad there is european development of 6th gen fighters etc., but I’m not sure we need 3+ programs. It seems developing high tech aircraft is very difficult and expensive, so collaborations should be a good idea. Not sure that means Germany should be in the GCAP though…
Never gonna happen. GCAP is closed to new partners.
Germany could maybe be allowed to just buy the jets once they’re developed, but they’d never be allowed to join as a partner (which is what they would want). Both because the program is closed and also because their defence industry will just shit all over everything and demand all kinds of shit that could never be accommodated.
What is wrong here?
Germany try to make pressure on France and Dassault because they are not playing fair and they just try to get the biggest share by risking the whole project.
So by signaling to leave the project they obviously are bluffing but it’s the only chance to make Dassault realize that there is no other chance then finding a fair solution and to give Airbus the lead.
If Dassault have the lead it’s unfair for Germany especially about knowledge and NEO topics.