It sounds like the EU is creating leverage for deal to be done.
articman123 on
Taiwan should be offically regonized by Europe and China said they are an independenet,m seperate nation that wants to be left alone.
Mkwdr on
I seriously doubt that anyone here in Europe has the guts to seriously do anything other than make quiet , polite gestures in the face of Chinese aggression.
diamanthaende on
The EU should try to massively improve relations with Taiwan, it could be key in addressing one major weakness in Europe’s economy: semiconductor manufacturing and design.
ASML, Zeiss et al may be crucial for the actual machines (and chemical processes) producing them, but TSMC is arguably the only company in thew world that has managed to perfect the production process and make it profitable and scalable, while reducing the impact of a typically cyclical business. Samsung routinely suffers from the cyclical issues, while the dumpster fire Intel isn’t even worth mentioning.
TSMC’s new design centre in Munich is a good first step, but there should be much more to come. Europe on the other hand could help improving Taiwan’s security, including delivering cutting edge defence kit and technology.
Beijing has no leg to stand on in this regard with their continuous (and massive) support of the Russian aggressor in the EU’s neighbourhood.
>Do we [Europeans] have an interest in speeding up on the subject of Taiwan? No. The worst of things would be to think that we Europeans must be followers on this subject and adapt ourselves to an American rhythm and a Chinese overreaction.
coprosperityglobal on
China is helping Russia in Ukraine, so why not make them understand is not acceptable? So EU does the same
RubCharacter7272 on
Snort if we couldn’t even defend our brothers in Ukraine and Georgia, do we honestly think our spineless leadership will defend Taiwan
No, it’s enraging because Taiwan is what China could be a beautiful democracy with strong social contracts and amazing technology and society. But only America can defend Taiwan now and who knows with the current MAGA admin
Sakakidash on
Not having recognised Taiwan as a country is a Stain on the European Union.
Mrstrawberry209 on
The EU is also awfully quiet about Sudan and Israel/Gaza.
BartD_ on
Wouldn’t be beyond the EU to take another idiotic foreign policy stance and ruin China relations.
Putaineska on
We should support Taiwan but if we can’t support Ukraine without grovelling and bending over to the US, what hope do we have for Taiwan. Probably Taiwan would not want our overt support either as it just antagonises China for no real gain for them.
Nagash24 on
Paywalled, didn’t read past the intro. But at the same time, let’s be real. The EU can’t defend Taiwan against China, just based on demographics and geography. I’m also not sure that the EU depends on Taiwan more than it does on China (fact-check me on that though!), with all the stuff we import because Europe moved its entire industry to China.
Droid202020202020 on
With its powerful blue water navy capable of sustaining long term operations away from the bases against a strong enemy, massive global logistics, and a healthy domestic economy not at all dependent on trade with China, Europe is a global superpower that commands enormous respect.
Oh wait, I got my universes all mixed up…
FatMike20295 on
EU will make some lip service and call it a day. Heck of they aren’t willing to do much for Ukraine which is their background what do people expect? They still buy Russia gas and oil to this day m they still refuse to shed soildiers in to help Ukraine.
Felix-LMFAO on
We’ll say any remarks but in practice we’ll get on all fours for China, just as we did with Trump, Russia and Israel. No spine, we’re jellyfish.
grumpsaboy on
I think we should help Taiwan. But Europe’s navies are in a poor state.
The UK has the strongest and the Royal Navy isn’t doing well. At all. Yet is still the best of Europe.
But the biggest issue, Auxiliary fleets. The RFA is underfunded and equipped, but is almost equal in tonnage to the rest of Europe combined. A single Tide class tanker is equal in tonnage than the French auxiliary fleet.
European countries struggle to sustain missions in the Mediterranean without returning to port, and when operating further abroad almost always use US auxiliary ships, occasionally UK ships and sometimes donate a tanker to join someone else (Genuinely thanks Norway for Moud accompanying CSG25, I wish we didn’t have to use you, but your help has been truly amazing).
The EU’s entire carrier tonnage is equal to a Nimitz and Wasp, but far less effective, and with the UK included it still is only a bit under 3 Nimitz. Japan has a total naval tonnage not far off all of Europe in Bluewater ships. South Korea is about equal to the UK (but much better organised, particularly in ship deliveries).
Too many people on this sub and politicians in Europe see China as only the US‘ issue, ignore the IP theft, frequent cyber attacks, genocide, funding of enemies like Russia.
Xi has publicly stated Taiwan will be ‚reunified‘ by the end of 2027, and dictatorships rarely afford failing promises like that. Additionally the Chinese naval build up is unaffordable unless used. Every 18 months they produce the same tonnage as the total size of the Royal Navy, Europe’s largest navy. Many of the ships have only 1 purpose, like the landing barges which are completely useless for anything apart from an invasion of Taiwan.
We sit here stating „China won’t ever do anything bad to us“ just like we did to Russia in 2016, ignoring all the warning signs, sticking our heads under the sand, and then wearing a snorkel as the hole fills with water, yet still refuse to even acknowledge it, let alone take any action.
Kaliente13 on
After the US fiasco in Afghanistan and now Ukraine, I wouldn’t bet a cent on Taiwan being even willing to go to war.
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17 Kommentare
It sounds like the EU is creating leverage for deal to be done.
Taiwan should be offically regonized by Europe and China said they are an independenet,m seperate nation that wants to be left alone.
I seriously doubt that anyone here in Europe has the guts to seriously do anything other than make quiet , polite gestures in the face of Chinese aggression.
The EU should try to massively improve relations with Taiwan, it could be key in addressing one major weakness in Europe’s economy: semiconductor manufacturing and design.
ASML, Zeiss et al may be crucial for the actual machines (and chemical processes) producing them, but TSMC is arguably the only company in thew world that has managed to perfect the production process and make it profitable and scalable, while reducing the impact of a typically cyclical business. Samsung routinely suffers from the cyclical issues, while the dumpster fire Intel isn’t even worth mentioning.
TSMC’s new design centre in Munich is a good first step, but there should be much more to come. Europe on the other hand could help improving Taiwan’s security, including delivering cutting edge defence kit and technology.
Beijing has no leg to stand on in this regard with their continuous (and massive) support of the Russian aggressor in the EU’s neighbourhood.
This conflicts with [Macron’s statement on Taiwan](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/10/emmanuel-macron-sparks-anger-europe-vassal-us-china-clash).
>Do we [Europeans] have an interest in speeding up on the subject of Taiwan? No. The worst of things would be to think that we Europeans must be followers on this subject and adapt ourselves to an American rhythm and a Chinese overreaction.
China is helping Russia in Ukraine, so why not make them understand is not acceptable? So EU does the same
Snort if we couldn’t even defend our brothers in Ukraine and Georgia, do we honestly think our spineless leadership will defend Taiwan
No, it’s enraging because Taiwan is what China could be a beautiful democracy with strong social contracts and amazing technology and society. But only America can defend Taiwan now and who knows with the current MAGA admin
Not having recognised Taiwan as a country is a Stain on the European Union.
The EU is also awfully quiet about Sudan and Israel/Gaza.
Wouldn’t be beyond the EU to take another idiotic foreign policy stance and ruin China relations.
We should support Taiwan but if we can’t support Ukraine without grovelling and bending over to the US, what hope do we have for Taiwan. Probably Taiwan would not want our overt support either as it just antagonises China for no real gain for them.
Paywalled, didn’t read past the intro. But at the same time, let’s be real. The EU can’t defend Taiwan against China, just based on demographics and geography. I’m also not sure that the EU depends on Taiwan more than it does on China (fact-check me on that though!), with all the stuff we import because Europe moved its entire industry to China.
With its powerful blue water navy capable of sustaining long term operations away from the bases against a strong enemy, massive global logistics, and a healthy domestic economy not at all dependent on trade with China, Europe is a global superpower that commands enormous respect.
Oh wait, I got my universes all mixed up…
EU will make some lip service and call it a day. Heck of they aren’t willing to do much for Ukraine which is their background what do people expect? They still buy Russia gas and oil to this day m they still refuse to shed soildiers in to help Ukraine.
We’ll say any remarks but in practice we’ll get on all fours for China, just as we did with Trump, Russia and Israel. No spine, we’re jellyfish.
I think we should help Taiwan. But Europe’s navies are in a poor state.
The UK has the strongest and the Royal Navy isn’t doing well. At all. Yet is still the best of Europe.
But the biggest issue, Auxiliary fleets. The RFA is underfunded and equipped, but is almost equal in tonnage to the rest of Europe combined. A single Tide class tanker is equal in tonnage than the French auxiliary fleet.
European countries struggle to sustain missions in the Mediterranean without returning to port, and when operating further abroad almost always use US auxiliary ships, occasionally UK ships and sometimes donate a tanker to join someone else (Genuinely thanks Norway for Moud accompanying CSG25, I wish we didn’t have to use you, but your help has been truly amazing).
The EU’s entire carrier tonnage is equal to a Nimitz and Wasp, but far less effective, and with the UK included it still is only a bit under 3 Nimitz. Japan has a total naval tonnage not far off all of Europe in Bluewater ships. South Korea is about equal to the UK (but much better organised, particularly in ship deliveries).
Too many people on this sub and politicians in Europe see China as only the US‘ issue, ignore the IP theft, frequent cyber attacks, genocide, funding of enemies like Russia.
Xi has publicly stated Taiwan will be ‚reunified‘ by the end of 2027, and dictatorships rarely afford failing promises like that. Additionally the Chinese naval build up is unaffordable unless used. Every 18 months they produce the same tonnage as the total size of the Royal Navy, Europe’s largest navy. Many of the ships have only 1 purpose, like the landing barges which are completely useless for anything apart from an invasion of Taiwan.
We sit here stating „China won’t ever do anything bad to us“ just like we did to Russia in 2016, ignoring all the warning signs, sticking our heads under the sand, and then wearing a snorkel as the hole fills with water, yet still refuse to even acknowledge it, let alone take any action.
After the US fiasco in Afghanistan and now Ukraine, I wouldn’t bet a cent on Taiwan being even willing to go to war.