Is Europes pullout game that much stronger than ours? Eek 😬
Academic-Flan-2316 on
the more higher education, the fewer births.
edit: the higher the religiousity, the more births.
those two factors combined explain the observed data reasonably well
bot_upboat on
Birth decline is going to become an issue on par with climate change.
halee1 on
It’s because of historically less immigration from regions with higher fertility rates. And even if mothers come from regions with low fertility rates (like Europe or East Asia), they still add to the total number of births, so higher immigration in general will always increase „all births“ (it’s obviously a bit different if we’re talking about fertility **rates**). It’s the same reason why fertility rates are higher in the EU than in East Asia: the latter countries have had even less immigration.
Higher historical religiosity in the US has probably helped too, but keep in mind that religious people are probably gonna be less productive, so the true benefits from their higher fertility rates really come during the transition from being religious to non-religious, when the additional born people are fully channeled into economic life. And the US has also become less religious over time, so even if secularization there has plateaued or is decreasing slightly in this decade, it’s probably just another blip in long-term trends.
fallsdarkness on
*fewer
Subj3ctX on
Source?
Also shouldn’t say Europe if you’re talking about the EU (i assume), they’re not the same thing.
heatrealist on
cannot compete with unregulated American virility
hate665 on
Idiocracy it’s a documentary
JaFuiBanidoDoReddit on
Are they going to tarif us on this too?
no-comment-only-lurk on
The US has more immigrants and religious communities with high birth rates.
Dragon2906 on
So far yes, let’s see how this looks like after all these ICE-actions
Wolfhart on
I don’t know about USA, but in Poland there is growing problem of people and companies buying out real estate as an investment to either rent or even just hold it to sell later.
Someone like me, who earns 4500 pln net (~1000 euro) as a Delphi programmer have no way to buy a flat or home, so how could I even think about having kids?
DPSharkB8 on
Does anyone on reddit know how to correctly use the words „less“ or „fewer“?
Forsaken-Link-5859 on
Fitting Europe feels pessimistic while USA feels optimistic in general, in people’s mindset
angeltabris_ on
Yeah i cant afford to piss nevermind have a baby
bete_du_gevaudan on
This goes with the trend of more educated people having less kids
Sizeablegrapefruits on
It’s no surprise. In the 2001 census 87.5% of the British population was white:British and by the 2021 census the same category was 74.4%.
London itself went from about 59% white:British to 37% in 2021.
That’s the way it’s gone for western Europe. The governments have sought migration to deal with this demographic downturn.
(I hope I don’t get a permanent ban. Last time I cited census data, Reddit removed the comment and gave me a warning)
NativeEuropeas on
This has less to do with „bad economy“ and more to do with multiple converging factors.
First economic:
* Children used to be an asset in agrarian economy. Having children was existential for family survival
* Modern capitalism + urbanization flips the script. Children are not assets. Education, housing, health care, all extra costs. Urban life makes large family financially punishing.
* Pensions and welfare makes children no longer your necessary survival.
Societal – social media + aspiration.
* Everywhere we are constantly brainwashed with success of other peeps that we’re trying to emulate. Success, money, freedom, travel, self-optimization. Parenthood is the exact opposite of that.
* Being a parent can come into clash with having a successful career
* We want to prolong adolescence, it can only be done if parenthood is delayed.
* Children are no longer „destiny“ but just one of many lifestyles to choose from.
The hypothetical solutions, brace yourselves, none of these will seem ideal and some are outright dystopian and extreme:
* (The worst possible solution) Cancel the welfare and pensions. Force old people into streets, force young people to breed to avoid the same fate. (I personally hope we never resort to that but I wouldn’t be surprised if some late stage corporationist authoritarian regime implements it)
* Censorship on social media, control over the pro-success capitalist narrative, a new type of propaganda that supports family life. (Honestly, I cannot imagine this to be a likely scenario. It would require too much of a societal change. Might be possible in very authoritarian countries like North Korea)
* Technological advancements in artificial breeding programs, children bred in pods, establishment of orphanages for these parentless children. Dystopian as hell, but so far the most likely solution in the western world where personal freedoms want to be maintained.
* Some form of AI and robotic automation that will alleviate the labor shortages.
CarlosMartel10 on
If they gave incentives for people to want to have children, help women during pregnancy, make their tasks easier at work, have mandatory daycare in each workplace, promote family life, etc.
No, the only one is; immigrants.
Organic_Contract_172 on
I’m suprised the fertility rate is still that high
2009impala on
As a society developed and the lives of women improve, birthrates tend to decline. This is a good thing.
thegerams on
I don’t think this is a big concern. There are too many people on this planet, we have a major housing crisis in big cities across Europe and many countries are at peak population. We have less space than the US, but are twice as many people, where should they all live?
I live in the Netherlands and we are definitely over-populated, that’s why people can’t afford housing, and that’s why they don’t have more kids.
No-Contest-8127 on
But, experiencing a good quality of life unlike the american ones born into misery and life’s of exploitation.
(Not perfect, mind).
comicsnerd on
And this is why Lagarde is reporting Europe needs immigrants
Bballer220 on
Have they tried banning abortion and encouraging/electing rapists.
Seems to keep thay US birth rate humming
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Is Europes pullout game that much stronger than ours? Eek 😬
the more higher education, the fewer births.
edit: the higher the religiousity, the more births.
those two factors combined explain the observed data reasonably well
Birth decline is going to become an issue on par with climate change.
It’s because of historically less immigration from regions with higher fertility rates. And even if mothers come from regions with low fertility rates (like Europe or East Asia), they still add to the total number of births, so higher immigration in general will always increase „all births“ (it’s obviously a bit different if we’re talking about fertility **rates**). It’s the same reason why fertility rates are higher in the EU than in East Asia: the latter countries have had even less immigration.
Higher historical religiosity in the US has probably helped too, but keep in mind that religious people are probably gonna be less productive, so the true benefits from their higher fertility rates really come during the transition from being religious to non-religious, when the additional born people are fully channeled into economic life. And the US has also become less religious over time, so even if secularization there has plateaued or is decreasing slightly in this decade, it’s probably just another blip in long-term trends.
*fewer
Source?
Also shouldn’t say Europe if you’re talking about the EU (i assume), they’re not the same thing.
cannot compete with unregulated American virility
Idiocracy it’s a documentary
Are they going to tarif us on this too?
The US has more immigrants and religious communities with high birth rates.
So far yes, let’s see how this looks like after all these ICE-actions
I don’t know about USA, but in Poland there is growing problem of people and companies buying out real estate as an investment to either rent or even just hold it to sell later.
Someone like me, who earns 4500 pln net (~1000 euro) as a Delphi programmer have no way to buy a flat or home, so how could I even think about having kids?
Does anyone on reddit know how to correctly use the words „less“ or „fewer“?
Fitting Europe feels pessimistic while USA feels optimistic in general, in people’s mindset
Yeah i cant afford to piss nevermind have a baby
This goes with the trend of more educated people having less kids
It’s no surprise. In the 2001 census 87.5% of the British population was white:British and by the 2021 census the same category was 74.4%.
London itself went from about 59% white:British to 37% in 2021.
That’s the way it’s gone for western Europe. The governments have sought migration to deal with this demographic downturn.
(I hope I don’t get a permanent ban. Last time I cited census data, Reddit removed the comment and gave me a warning)
This has less to do with „bad economy“ and more to do with multiple converging factors.
First economic:
* Children used to be an asset in agrarian economy. Having children was existential for family survival
* Modern capitalism + urbanization flips the script. Children are not assets. Education, housing, health care, all extra costs. Urban life makes large family financially punishing.
* Pensions and welfare makes children no longer your necessary survival.
Societal – social media + aspiration.
* Everywhere we are constantly brainwashed with success of other peeps that we’re trying to emulate. Success, money, freedom, travel, self-optimization. Parenthood is the exact opposite of that.
* Being a parent can come into clash with having a successful career
* We want to prolong adolescence, it can only be done if parenthood is delayed.
* Children are no longer „destiny“ but just one of many lifestyles to choose from.
The hypothetical solutions, brace yourselves, none of these will seem ideal and some are outright dystopian and extreme:
* (The worst possible solution) Cancel the welfare and pensions. Force old people into streets, force young people to breed to avoid the same fate. (I personally hope we never resort to that but I wouldn’t be surprised if some late stage corporationist authoritarian regime implements it)
* Censorship on social media, control over the pro-success capitalist narrative, a new type of propaganda that supports family life. (Honestly, I cannot imagine this to be a likely scenario. It would require too much of a societal change. Might be possible in very authoritarian countries like North Korea)
* Technological advancements in artificial breeding programs, children bred in pods, establishment of orphanages for these parentless children. Dystopian as hell, but so far the most likely solution in the western world where personal freedoms want to be maintained.
* Some form of AI and robotic automation that will alleviate the labor shortages.
If they gave incentives for people to want to have children, help women during pregnancy, make their tasks easier at work, have mandatory daycare in each workplace, promote family life, etc.
No, the only one is; immigrants.
I’m suprised the fertility rate is still that high
As a society developed and the lives of women improve, birthrates tend to decline. This is a good thing.
I don’t think this is a big concern. There are too many people on this planet, we have a major housing crisis in big cities across Europe and many countries are at peak population. We have less space than the US, but are twice as many people, where should they all live?
I live in the Netherlands and we are definitely over-populated, that’s why people can’t afford housing, and that’s why they don’t have more kids.
But, experiencing a good quality of life unlike the american ones born into misery and life’s of exploitation.
(Not perfect, mind).
And this is why Lagarde is reporting Europe needs immigrants
Have they tried banning abortion and encouraging/electing rapists.
Seems to keep thay US birth rate humming