Französische Rafale schlägt die amerikanische F-35 im Hundebau
https://aviationnews.eu/news/2025/08/french-rafale-outmaneuvers-f-35-in-dogfight-but-theres-more-to-the-story-video-at-end-article/
Von outtayoleeg
Französische Rafale schlägt die amerikanische F-35 im Hundebau
https://aviationnews.eu/news/2025/08/french-rafale-outmaneuvers-f-35-in-dogfight-but-theres-more-to-the-story-video-at-end-article/
Von outtayoleeg
35 Kommentare
[deleted]
You mean a jet built for dogfighting beats one built for stealth at dogfighting?
Shocker.
So? The F-35 is a stealth close air support fighter, realistically it’ll never see a gun dogfight.
Title is misleading. It was the combination of plane and pilot that beat another combination of plane and pilot, so we don’t know ( yet ) if the plane was better or if the pilot was better. Maybe both.
People think jets these days go around in circles and shoot each other with cannons like in olden days?
If F-35 finds itself in a dogfight, it has already failed. It’s not meant to dogfight, it’s meant to destroy the enemy before the enemy even knows the F-35 is there.
The F-35 would never dogfight in a real war scenario. It would destroy the Rafale before it ever knew it was there. They don’t spend all that money on stealth for no reason. These types of comparisons are pointless and mean nothing.
Click bait
Guys, I know you don’t like Trump, but be for real, the F-35 would never have been detected by the Rafale.
Lol. You guys. The purpose of the f35 is to enrich the manufacturer. Thats it.
Looks like French advertisment ofensive
This is very well known. It’s stealth coating destroys it’s aerodynamics.
I’m curious, what will happen in the future when both sides will have stealth jets? Will they end up in a dogfight?
The F-35 isn’t built for dogfighting.
Dogfighting certainly didn’t help the Rafale that got shot down in Operation Sindoor.
Wasn’t meant for that anyways since it could fire a missile outside of visual range or something
Obviously, in a much more realistic fight, the F-35 would launch its missiles much before the Rafale would and the Rafale would probably perish by the simple probabilities of the missiles connecting.
But that’s the point of these exercises that test highly specific scenarios that are not necessarily realistic. For example, the F-35 pilot may have made an error or the plane was not optimized for a specific maneuver that was tested here and can then learn from this.
Anyway, the Pentagon expects that air-to-air battles, which already happen at commonly 60-100km+ will happen at far greater distance over the next few decades. That will hit 4th gen jets like Rafale with minimal stealth features much harder than the F-35.
That is why every country with either the money or tech wants jets with substantial stealth features whereas 4th gen jets are relegated to e.g. lobbing stand-off missiles or operating if air superiority has been achieved. That is for example exactly how Israel is expected to use the F-15IA’s they are procuring. After all, e.g. internal carrying necessarily massively limits the size of weapons that can be carried.
Jesus dont say that. Canada will take another decade deciding which jet to buy.
Coolstorybob
So what? These news are kind of dumb, as dogfighting is not really relevant for a modern jet like the F-35.
I’m all about supporting European products, but „news“ like these are just dumb.
Context with broader information regarding the superiority of the F35
This was stated by French pilots btw (pictures are attached on the link)
„The technological asymmetry is now clear: French pilots regularly facing 5th generation fighters in joint exercises note that ‘the combat mission against stealth fighters on Rafale is impossible to win with the current state of sensors’.“
So no, the Rafale is not superior to the F35
[Statements by French Pilots](https://imgur.com/a/zAUF20C)
How did India manage to lose 2 of these to Pakistan 💀
„If you remove the ammunition. A sword beats a gun everytime.“ type shit is this?
Now put it against the f-22 and see how far away the f-22 scores a kill from
Not how the battlefield works nor how the planes were designed.
Almost every modern jet fighter beats F-35 in a dogfight. The plane is not made for dogfighting. It’s made to roflstomp any other plane from 100 kilometers away before they have any chance of even detecting the F-35. Dogfighting is just not something it would ever do. Rafale is a great fighter. But it’s simply obsolete compared to stealth planes, which is why we need to develop our own 6th generation planes as quickly as possible.
The F-16 beats the F-35 in a dogfight. F-35 will kill before it gets into dogfight range or it will fail.
I mean the picture of the so called „kill“ Is taken from a targeting pod. So it isn’t even proof for a kill. They‘re both capable aircrafts in a dogfight (the Rafale perhaps more so) but in a real Engagement the Rafale wouldn’t stand a chance against the F-35 as it would be defeated in the BVR realm.
So many salty Americans making excuses here. Too funny! 🤣
https://youtu.be/Fs35iE_OGFo?si=Rr51X5oDwRN57FK_
In a real world fight the F-35 would have downed the Rafale before it ever knew they were in the same airspace. Gone are the days of dog fighting aircraft.
Pakistan shot the Rafale down easily.
I don’t know why people are so anal that the test that was specifically to simulate a dogfight simulated a dogfight, armies train and test their equipment for all kind of scenarios.
A lot of people in the thread are fighting over which is better in this scenario. Ultimately even if one was better at this scenario than the other the actual difference is probably not that huge and pilot skill/luck probably plays a much bigger role in this situation.
The present and future of air defense are drones. Cheap drones, masses of them. Fast and quick to built drones. Not super expensive manned fighter aircraft craft.
Drones is what we as Europe need to invest in. Learn from Ukraine, license their technology, help them and supply them more drones to defend themselves and our European freedom and values.
Well that article was clickbait. It just gives all these reasons as to why it’s not a big deal
The F-35 isn’t built for dogfights, it’s built for stealth. It will eliminate the target without the target even knowing its there. It should never even get into a dogfight