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    7 Kommentare

    1. Former-Physics-1831 on

      This is a bit of a confused article, with Urback repeatedly switching back and forth from „isn’t this shameful?“ to „this is how it has to be“.  And I can forgive that because frankly the best way to prosecute SA allegations is a minefield, but I’m left somewhat confused by what Urback was hoping to get across in this article – or perhaps it was just her way of processing things.

      Incidentally, the response in /r/Canada has been gross.  The crown quite obviously did not make their case and acquittal was, imo, the right call, but the mass of people attacking E.M. viciously and personally all need to grow up

    2. MundaneSchool1823 on

      Me too died with the 2016 new years rape in Europe.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316_New_Year%27s_Eve_sexual_assaults_in_Germany

      All of a sudden Liberal and centre right governments were telling women they shouldn’t have dressed provocatively, should be with male companions and shouldn’t stay out late. Because the perpetrators were from a none Christian religion and non western culture they also tried to cover it up. Even this website was doing its best to censor and delete posts after the believe her and me too movement.

      Since then the world has gone further and further fascist. Germany’s AFD party became relevant thanks to the centre rights response.

      Having the courts disregard truth and go with mob mentality, often time given the cute name ‚court of public opinion‘, is the wrong answer. Good for the judge not to give more fuel to the far right fascist movement.

    3. KingRabbit_ on

      Nobody knows what happened in that hotel room outside of the people in it at the time. Was it a gang rape, a gang-bang or did they all make fucking popcorn and go to bed.

      However, no reasonable human being without an agenda can look at the facts presented in the court room and conclude the Crown came remotely close to proving its case. Obviously, this precludes the vast swathe of commentators employed by the CBC judging by the 50 op-eds churned out since yesterday afternoon on this story.

      The judge took special care to point out the enormous holes in their case including the inconsistencies in the complainant’s testimony.

      Reasonable doubt existed. It really is that fucking simple.

    4. Prestigous_Owl on

      To preface this: i will probably phrase something in this response in a way that could be better said. I apologize to anybody that I might offend with my choice of wording at any point. And I hope you can engage with the sentiment of this over the semantics.

      Unfortunately, I think both sides of this are probably putting too much weight on the implications of this decision.

      This decision in itself shouldn’t be seen as the end of #MeToo, or „okay so sexual assault is now legal“ (which I have seen all over today). It’s obviously not a „win“ for those advocating for better treatment of SA victims in the system, but lets also acknowledge that this wasn’t some open and shut, easy case. You had a victim who by her own admission provided verbal consent, and the case was about wading into the very grey nuance around under what circumstances consent can be considered freely given and what kind of due diligence should have been expected on the part of the men in this scenario to verify that the verbal consent they were hearing was genuine, and not coerced. I think we do have an evolving understanding about this, but I understand why laws may struggle to parse and adjudicate that.

      Again, its okay to be disappointed in the results, but I would TRY not to overstate how big of a setback this is or be overly pessimistic about what this says about women’s rights more broadly. I don’t say this in a „wow, women should stop complaining“ way. I say this because I worry that this level of public pessimism will amplify the potential chilling effect of the decision. Maybe the decision itself means that some victims won’t come forward in the future. But I think a massive discourse about „wow, this is evidence that the courts will never ever hold men accojntable“ makes the problem even worse, especially because the facts of this case were really unique and difficult.

      Now, on the other side, its also crazy to see the response from a lot of men today. „Those poor boys“, „they should be suing her“, etc. Give me a break. They aren’t criminals, in the eyes of the law, but they were absolutely overprivileged, entitled creeps at the best. The world has lost NOTHING of value by the NHLs choice not to give them a job and a pedestal. They have not been „vindicated“, they have been exonerated of the criminal charges against them. Even the judge is not ACTUALLY saying „she was a liar and this was BS“, the judge basically said „look, in a case where we don’t have a lot of other evidence, this needs to be strong and its not. She’s not credible or reliable (within the context available).“ Let’s also not ignore the fact this all brought to light the fact that sexual assault was routine enough at that point that Hockey Canada was actively maintaining a
      Slush fund for paying off women.

      This case is not evidence that women will NEVER be believed. Nor is it evidence that women SHOULD never be believed or that men are the real victims. Everyone would be better off if we just stopped talking about this frankly very specific situation that 99% of commenters have almost no understanding of.

    5. Radiant_Sherbert7272 on

      The problem with many in the MeToo movement is that they believe that innocent until proven guilty should be thrown out the window. The judge, in this case, immediately questioned the credibility of EM and that’s why the 5 players were found not guilty and that was the right decision.

    6. OrbAndSceptre on

      Consent cannot be withdrawn after the act. This is the lesson people should take away from this. It’s not sexual assault if you regret having sex with a stranger later in the evening or the next day.

    7. M116Fullbore on

      Without trying to get too into the weeds on the merits of this case, I have been consistently surprised by one of the pro-conviction arguments going around here, that there is simply *no way* any young woman would ever want to engage in group sex, even with a bunch of top athletes.

      I mean, that isnt most people’s cup of tea, but there is absolutely a significant number of people who love doing those things, both group sex and sex with celebs. Groupies have been a thing for decades, it seems remarkably prudish to argue that consent *could not* have existed because no one in their right mind would have wanted to do something like that. Hell, that wasnt an uncommon thing to happen/hear about in high school, college.

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