Who gnu that having 21 year olds who’ve taken a couple semesters of coding might not be the best choices to play God with a nation’s retirement savings…
Prayer_Warrior21 on
No fucking shit?
StoppableHulk on
I have done large-scale enterprise system swap-outs at fortune 500 companies. Large financial institutions switching out their ERPs and CRMs and other big-data platforms for another provider.
Let me tell you, that even understanding the data in context on systems a hundred times smaller than the federal government can take MONTHS of sitting with subject matter experts day in and day out to explain fields, and tables, and business logic at play.
It can take up to two years to fully offload one platform and ramp up another. To do it correctly, so that you fully understand the source system and have faithfully replicated functionality in the destination system, it takes an extraordinary amount of time and manpower.
These fucking fools thought some python tricks and chatgpt was going to help them undersand dozens of decades-old legacy systems handling millions upon billions of records?
See the thing is these aren’t just things you can brute force. They’re systems, built by people and policy over decades. You can’t „outsmart“ someone else’s code, and other people’s processes. It just doesn’t work like that and if people think it does, they’ve watched too many movies and TV shows which leave out how incredibly slow and time-consuming dealing with data at scale like this really is.
It goes to show you how delusional and out of touch they truly are.
And for the record, Elon never built anything in his fucking life. Any evidence of his actual coding we have is back in his PayPal days, and the evidence then was he was a shitty coder whose code always had to be rewritten by more competent engineers.
All he does is buy companies and pressure talented people into working 100 hours a week to fit his ever-more-bizzare product demands, like a Steve Jobs who has no vision or tethering to reality and who ois increasingly losing his fucking mind.
Now the only people dumb enough to follow him any more are 20-somethings right out of college and incubated in the manosphere on Twitter, and no amount of abuse or sleeping in the office was going to magically make them untangle government systems.
IndependentAd3170 on
I mean DUH🙄
Choice-of-SteinsGate on
Musk’s entire DOGE operation has ironically amounted to a tremendous waste of resources and a fraudulent, „disgusting abomination“ of an effort in itself.
While Musk was distracting his Twitter followers with vague and misleading claims about his painstaking effort to eliminate „waste“ and „fraud“ from the government, he was also abusing his unelected powers trying to protect his company’s interests while secretly manipulating information about major „spending cuts“ from his „wall of receipts.“
Aside from addressing his conflicts of interest, I want to take the time to put the spotlight on Elon Musk and DOGE, and how they have been the ones perpetuating fraud, abusing power and mismanaging government operations.
Most of Musk’s boasts on Twitter about DOGE’s „cost cutting“ and „fraud“ eliminating efforts have been inaccurate or flat out unfounded. Throughout his tenure as chief plutocrat, Musk was silently backtracking on a lot of his claims while still maintaining many of the lies about DOGE’s „accomplishments.“
Musk has taken credit for things like „saving costs“ where credit wasn’t due. For instance, he bragged about cancelling contracts that weren’t going to be renewed in the first place.
> David Reid, an environmental scientist in Michigan, was surprised to learn his contract studying invasive species… was included on the list. “That contract wasn’t canceled by DOGE or anyone else,” he said. The contract expired on Dec. 31 and he decided to retire and not renew it, he said. “If they took credit for canceling the contract, they’re lying.”
Musk made frequent, erratic and false claims about „massive amounts“ of fraud, but when those claims were proven to be misleading or inaccurate, he provided little to no transparency about these mistakes and his grovelling supporters on Twitter remained unaware of the dishonesty of the whole DOGE operation.
DOGE deliberately obfuscated data and quietly deleted many of its claims from its own website. And even then, its so-called „wall of receipts“ was still riddled with accounting errors, outdated data or other miscalculations.
Even as the number of errors grew, the DOGE website was still increasing the total amount of savings it claims to have gleaned from its cost cutting efforts.
Musk was not only driving the narrative on Twitter, but his audience was taking every single word of his as a matter of fact while disregarding any information that might have contradicted Musk’s claims.
One of those claims came early on in Trump’s second term, when Musk stated that he had helped eliminate tens of billions (now over $100 billion) in „government waste,“ but the math says differently.
Real estimates show that this number is substantially lower. Trump’s „big beautiful bill“ for instance, codifies only $9 billion in DOGE „cuts,“ and while much of what DOGE has targeted didn’t warrant any scrutiny or cuts to begin with.
As far as more examples go:
Some of the contracts that DOGE claims credit for canceling were sometimes double—or even triple counted.
DOGE has claimed that entire contracts were canceled, when only a portion of the work was stopped. And in other cases, these contracts that DOGE claims credit for cancelling actually ended under the Biden administration.
In another more commonly reported instance, DOGE announced that it had saved $8 billion by cancelling a contract with a company providing technical support for ICE. As it turns out, the contract’s actual value was $8 *million.*
DOGE was also making some serious miscalculations.
To provide an example of how they were operating this way, I’ll show you a specific case where DOGE cancelled a contract for alleged „DEI services“ for the Department of Homeland security.
They claim that by canceling this contract, they saved exactly $5.4 million.
The total cost of this contract was $7.5 million. DOGE arrived at this $5.4 million figure by subtracting an amount that had already been presumably spent.
But it’s not nearly as straightforward as this. Analysts say that values like this $5.4 million spending figure are way over-estimated.
This is because spending figures are often undercounted due to data being out of date. Something DOGE hasn’t accounted for in its cancelling of similar contracts.
What’s more, the numbers don’t account for other costs. Like the termination costs the government will have to pay to close these contracts, making these savings estimates what one expert called a „meaningless metric.“
Contractors will have to lay off staff, close their offices, terminate leases and get rid of equipment. This is a time consuming process that can sometimes face legal challenges.
In other words, DOGE never took these things into consideration and its math has been way off from the beginning.
But wait, there’s more…
DOGE also made unrealistic estimates based on savings from terminating what are called „umbrella contracts.“
These are larger contracts where the government sets a „ceiling“ that represents what it’s willing to spend through orders with multiple vendors, and ceilings as high as several billion dollars.
In a lot of cases, the total cost of orders from vendors does not reach these ceilings. But DOGE did not account for this, and instead included the entire cost of the umbrella contract in their math. In other words, it’s not real money, not real savings.
Another case involved DOGE *triple* counting savings for USAID contracts worth hundreds of millions, and after trying to make up for this mistake, they still ended up overestimating total savings by at least $270 million.
A similar case involved a contract with the EPA for „DEI services“ that was over counted three times as well.
In another instance, DOGE incorrectly claimed $232 million in savings through a contract with the SSA, when the actual amount was closer to $560,000.
You want to talk about fraud? Look no further, the call is coming from inside the house.
What’s more, Elon’s „wall of receipts“ includes hundreds of cases that haven’t saved taxpayers *a damn thing*. For example, in one case that was listed, a contract worth $10 million with the SEC actually amounted to $0 in savings because that contract expired a year ago. It’s all been a scam.
Many of these cancelled contracts relate to the elimination of perceived „DEI“ programs. Most of the cancellations listed include businesses that are disproportionately run by women and minorities.
Meaning that this effort was far more ideological than strategic. Elon and his Muskrats were simply going after whatever agencies they perceived as operating under some radical left agenda.
And all the while, Musk and his supporters were failing to address, or even acknowledge the fact that his companies are subsidized to the teeth and he was taking active steps to protect his own interests.
In reality, DOGE was not acting on behalf of the American people, but was pursuing an agenda that was fueled by the right’s culture wars and the narcissistic, shallow ambitions of an unelected plutocrat and his team of lackeys who all believed they were the main character in Mr. Robot.
This effort was driven by the irrational fears and ideological convictions of a small number of incompetent reactionaries. There was nothing sincere, „merit-based“ or strategic about it. One might say it’s all been quite *wasteful.*
LuvKrahft on
So they hired a bunch of people based on physical characteristics and not only did they not know what they were doing but they were doing drugs at work, insulted everyone, trashed offices, and didn’t face any repercussions.
I’m betting the Same people that have a problem with a made up bogeyman version of DEI won’t have the epiphany moment they should after seeing DOGE f’up like this.
Catspaw129 on
How soon we forget.
Does anyone remember how smoothly the deployment of the state’s portals for the Affordable Care Act went?
blazze_eternal on
They thought there were all these dead people collecting checks. Maybe stop any of the thousands of employees there who can tell you about survivor benefits.
Uberslaughter on
Since hindsight is 20/20, why stop there?
Maybe it wasn’t a great idea to let Trump loose on America again.
maeryclarity on
It literally had to be illegal as hell, what they did. They should have had NO Admin access and DEFINITELY NO permissions to access the system freely and make changes. The information alone was not something they were authorized to be privy to and there was no process for them to BECOME authorized to see and possibly manipulate that information.
Musk and his boys have no more business anywhere near my private information than I do in theirs. I am pretty fuckin‘ sure that if Musk found me in his offices downloading all his information and making changes to the software of his system and then making sure he couldn’t know what I had done, I don’t even know how the fuck much trouble I would be in, like, Interpol maybe? DEFINITELY the FBI and Homeland Security.
*But our information is no less ours and he and his goons had no more right to do that than I would have in the scene I just described.*
Do not lose sight of their criminality, they ain’t done getting asked questions.
And one day those question folks will have badges.
Cheezel62 on
‚Maybe‘? How about definitely
skingers on
But, but he makes electric cars and spaceships so umm, ideally placed to understand what social security is all about. Meritocracy FTW.
BradlyPitts89 on
I guarantee doge had no idea what they were looking at, it’s opposable in that little amount of time that they would. They used a chainsaw to perform surgery, but in the end don got his social cuts and breaks for the rich and Elon got his gov contracts.
Aldren on
You don’t need to understand the data, just collect it all and someone else can sort it out after you sell it
Deguilded on
It wasn’t necessary that they understood it, they merely needed to access it. It’s training data, but not for them.
thepartypantser on
You know I asked Google a simple question about a feature on a smartphone that sold 25+ million units. Their AI got the answer wrong.
If Google cannot get AI to accurately answer a question about a pretty popular phone, why the hell did a handful of 20 somethings using AI to analyze data they have no comprehension of think they would be successful.
JamesWjRose on
Or ANYTHING
kandoras on
[DOGE sent one guy to reform the VA. A tech bro who got rich from building an „etsy for digital stuff“. Who thought that he could save them billions of dollars. And who couldn’t understand why his wife didn’t want him to move across the country and leave her alone while she was six months pregnant.](https://www.npr.org/transcripts/1254121714)
So he gets to the VA and starts digging around. He does stuff like replace the word „Twitter“ with „X“ on a couple web pages. But then someone has to explain to him that when you change a government website – especially for a department that serves people who might be older or wounded – you have to do things like „Make sure it’s still readable by people with vision problems.“
So then he takes fifteen minutes to build an AI tool that he plans to look at every contract the VA has and it’ll tell him which ones were fraud, waste, and abuse. A shitty AI tool that was filled with bugs and obviously didn’t understand what it was looking for.
He has some other ideas like „update the software the government uses“. And someone explain to him „Yeah, no shit dude. We’ve already got people working on it, but a system that serves millions of vets takes more to get stuff done than fifteen minutes from a single guy.“
Someone had to pull him aside and explain to him that everyone in the building was scared to death of the DOGE dude. You know, the guy representing the agency which had taken a hatchet to every department it touched and caused mass layoffs.
He gets pulled into a meeting with Elon himself, and is saddened to learn that instead of getting guidance from his hero, Elon just spouts nonsense buzzwords at them for four hours while forcing them to stand because no one thought to bring in chairs.
Basically, Einstein this guy ain’t.
And then he proves that even more by talking to reporters and saying stuff like „Turns out the government actually knows what it’s doing.“ Which leads to him finding out he’s fired not by anyone saying „You’re fired“ but when he tried to login to do some work one morning and he username didn’t work.
Oh, and those billions upon billions of dollars he thought he could save the VA? Elon says that his guy at the VA saved them $380,000 a month by replacing contractors who had the job of updating government websites with in-house personnel.
Only thing is, that ‚personnel‘ was just him. One guy, responsible for updating every web page the VA touched. And who had now been fired.
So not everyone at DOGE was a Nazi. Some of them are just really, really, extremely, dumb.
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18 Kommentare
Who gnu that having 21 year olds who’ve taken a couple semesters of coding might not be the best choices to play God with a nation’s retirement savings…
No fucking shit?
I have done large-scale enterprise system swap-outs at fortune 500 companies. Large financial institutions switching out their ERPs and CRMs and other big-data platforms for another provider.
Let me tell you, that even understanding the data in context on systems a hundred times smaller than the federal government can take MONTHS of sitting with subject matter experts day in and day out to explain fields, and tables, and business logic at play.
It can take up to two years to fully offload one platform and ramp up another. To do it correctly, so that you fully understand the source system and have faithfully replicated functionality in the destination system, it takes an extraordinary amount of time and manpower.
These fucking fools thought some python tricks and chatgpt was going to help them undersand dozens of decades-old legacy systems handling millions upon billions of records?
See the thing is these aren’t just things you can brute force. They’re systems, built by people and policy over decades. You can’t „outsmart“ someone else’s code, and other people’s processes. It just doesn’t work like that and if people think it does, they’ve watched too many movies and TV shows which leave out how incredibly slow and time-consuming dealing with data at scale like this really is.
It goes to show you how delusional and out of touch they truly are.
And for the record, Elon never built anything in his fucking life. Any evidence of his actual coding we have is back in his PayPal days, and the evidence then was he was a shitty coder whose code always had to be rewritten by more competent engineers.
All he does is buy companies and pressure talented people into working 100 hours a week to fit his ever-more-bizzare product demands, like a Steve Jobs who has no vision or tethering to reality and who ois increasingly losing his fucking mind.
Now the only people dumb enough to follow him any more are 20-somethings right out of college and incubated in the manosphere on Twitter, and no amount of abuse or sleeping in the office was going to magically make them untangle government systems.
I mean DUH🙄
Musk’s entire DOGE operation has ironically amounted to a tremendous waste of resources and a fraudulent, „disgusting abomination“ of an effort in itself.
While Musk was distracting his Twitter followers with vague and misleading claims about his painstaking effort to eliminate „waste“ and „fraud“ from the government, he was also abusing his unelected powers trying to protect his company’s interests while secretly manipulating information about major „spending cuts“ from his „wall of receipts.“
Aside from addressing his conflicts of interest, I want to take the time to put the spotlight on Elon Musk and DOGE, and how they have been the ones perpetuating fraud, abusing power and mismanaging government operations.
Most of Musk’s boasts on Twitter about DOGE’s „cost cutting“ and „fraud“ eliminating efforts have been inaccurate or flat out unfounded. Throughout his tenure as chief plutocrat, Musk was silently backtracking on a lot of his claims while still maintaining many of the lies about DOGE’s „accomplishments.“
Musk has taken credit for things like „saving costs“ where credit wasn’t due. For instance, he bragged about cancelling contracts that weren’t going to be renewed in the first place.
> David Reid, an environmental scientist in Michigan, was surprised to learn his contract studying invasive species… was included on the list. “That contract wasn’t canceled by DOGE or anyone else,” he said. The contract expired on Dec. 31 and he decided to retire and not renew it, he said. “If they took credit for canceling the contract, they’re lying.”
Musk made frequent, erratic and false claims about „massive amounts“ of fraud, but when those claims were proven to be misleading or inaccurate, he provided little to no transparency about these mistakes and his grovelling supporters on Twitter remained unaware of the dishonesty of the whole DOGE operation.
DOGE deliberately obfuscated data and quietly deleted many of its claims from its own website. And even then, its so-called „wall of receipts“ was still riddled with accounting errors, outdated data or other miscalculations.
Even as the number of errors grew, the DOGE website was still increasing the total amount of savings it claims to have gleaned from its cost cutting efforts.
Musk was not only driving the narrative on Twitter, but his audience was taking every single word of his as a matter of fact while disregarding any information that might have contradicted Musk’s claims.
One of those claims came early on in Trump’s second term, when Musk stated that he had helped eliminate tens of billions (now over $100 billion) in „government waste,“ but the math says differently.
Real estimates show that this number is substantially lower. Trump’s „big beautiful bill“ for instance, codifies only $9 billion in DOGE „cuts,“ and while much of what DOGE has targeted didn’t warrant any scrutiny or cuts to begin with.
As far as more examples go:
Some of the contracts that DOGE claims credit for canceling were sometimes double—or even triple counted.
DOGE has claimed that entire contracts were canceled, when only a portion of the work was stopped. And in other cases, these contracts that DOGE claims credit for cancelling actually ended under the Biden administration.
In another more commonly reported instance, DOGE announced that it had saved $8 billion by cancelling a contract with a company providing technical support for ICE. As it turns out, the contract’s actual value was $8 *million.*
DOGE was also making some serious miscalculations.
To provide an example of how they were operating this way, I’ll show you a specific case where DOGE cancelled a contract for alleged „DEI services“ for the Department of Homeland security.
They claim that by canceling this contract, they saved exactly $5.4 million.
The total cost of this contract was $7.5 million. DOGE arrived at this $5.4 million figure by subtracting an amount that had already been presumably spent.
But it’s not nearly as straightforward as this. Analysts say that values like this $5.4 million spending figure are way over-estimated.
This is because spending figures are often undercounted due to data being out of date. Something DOGE hasn’t accounted for in its cancelling of similar contracts.
What’s more, the numbers don’t account for other costs. Like the termination costs the government will have to pay to close these contracts, making these savings estimates what one expert called a „meaningless metric.“
Contractors will have to lay off staff, close their offices, terminate leases and get rid of equipment. This is a time consuming process that can sometimes face legal challenges.
In other words, DOGE never took these things into consideration and its math has been way off from the beginning.
But wait, there’s more…
DOGE also made unrealistic estimates based on savings from terminating what are called „umbrella contracts.“
These are larger contracts where the government sets a „ceiling“ that represents what it’s willing to spend through orders with multiple vendors, and ceilings as high as several billion dollars.
In a lot of cases, the total cost of orders from vendors does not reach these ceilings. But DOGE did not account for this, and instead included the entire cost of the umbrella contract in their math. In other words, it’s not real money, not real savings.
Another case involved DOGE *triple* counting savings for USAID contracts worth hundreds of millions, and after trying to make up for this mistake, they still ended up overestimating total savings by at least $270 million.
A similar case involved a contract with the EPA for „DEI services“ that was over counted three times as well.
In another instance, DOGE incorrectly claimed $232 million in savings through a contract with the SSA, when the actual amount was closer to $560,000.
You want to talk about fraud? Look no further, the call is coming from inside the house.
What’s more, Elon’s „wall of receipts“ includes hundreds of cases that haven’t saved taxpayers *a damn thing*. For example, in one case that was listed, a contract worth $10 million with the SEC actually amounted to $0 in savings because that contract expired a year ago. It’s all been a scam.
Many of these cancelled contracts relate to the elimination of perceived „DEI“ programs. Most of the cancellations listed include businesses that are disproportionately run by women and minorities.
Meaning that this effort was far more ideological than strategic. Elon and his Muskrats were simply going after whatever agencies they perceived as operating under some radical left agenda.
And all the while, Musk and his supporters were failing to address, or even acknowledge the fact that his companies are subsidized to the teeth and he was taking active steps to protect his own interests.
In reality, DOGE was not acting on behalf of the American people, but was pursuing an agenda that was fueled by the right’s culture wars and the narcissistic, shallow ambitions of an unelected plutocrat and his team of lackeys who all believed they were the main character in Mr. Robot.
This effort was driven by the irrational fears and ideological convictions of a small number of incompetent reactionaries. There was nothing sincere, „merit-based“ or strategic about it. One might say it’s all been quite *wasteful.*
So they hired a bunch of people based on physical characteristics and not only did they not know what they were doing but they were doing drugs at work, insulted everyone, trashed offices, and didn’t face any repercussions.
I’m betting the Same people that have a problem with a made up bogeyman version of DEI won’t have the epiphany moment they should after seeing DOGE f’up like this.
How soon we forget.
Does anyone remember how smoothly the deployment of the state’s portals for the Affordable Care Act went?
They thought there were all these dead people collecting checks. Maybe stop any of the thousands of employees there who can tell you about survivor benefits.
Since hindsight is 20/20, why stop there?
Maybe it wasn’t a great idea to let Trump loose on America again.
It literally had to be illegal as hell, what they did. They should have had NO Admin access and DEFINITELY NO permissions to access the system freely and make changes. The information alone was not something they were authorized to be privy to and there was no process for them to BECOME authorized to see and possibly manipulate that information.
Musk and his boys have no more business anywhere near my private information than I do in theirs. I am pretty fuckin‘ sure that if Musk found me in his offices downloading all his information and making changes to the software of his system and then making sure he couldn’t know what I had done, I don’t even know how the fuck much trouble I would be in, like, Interpol maybe? DEFINITELY the FBI and Homeland Security.
*But our information is no less ours and he and his goons had no more right to do that than I would have in the scene I just described.*
Do not lose sight of their criminality, they ain’t done getting asked questions.
And one day those question folks will have badges.
‚Maybe‘? How about definitely
But, but he makes electric cars and spaceships so umm, ideally placed to understand what social security is all about. Meritocracy FTW.
I guarantee doge had no idea what they were looking at, it’s opposable in that little amount of time that they would. They used a chainsaw to perform surgery, but in the end don got his social cuts and breaks for the rich and Elon got his gov contracts.
You don’t need to understand the data, just collect it all and someone else can sort it out after you sell it
It wasn’t necessary that they understood it, they merely needed to access it. It’s training data, but not for them.
You know I asked Google a simple question about a feature on a smartphone that sold 25+ million units. Their AI got the answer wrong.
If Google cannot get AI to accurately answer a question about a pretty popular phone, why the hell did a handful of 20 somethings using AI to analyze data they have no comprehension of think they would be successful.
Or ANYTHING
[DOGE sent one guy to reform the VA. A tech bro who got rich from building an „etsy for digital stuff“. Who thought that he could save them billions of dollars. And who couldn’t understand why his wife didn’t want him to move across the country and leave her alone while she was six months pregnant.](https://www.npr.org/transcripts/1254121714)
So he gets to the VA and starts digging around. He does stuff like replace the word „Twitter“ with „X“ on a couple web pages. But then someone has to explain to him that when you change a government website – especially for a department that serves people who might be older or wounded – you have to do things like „Make sure it’s still readable by people with vision problems.“
So then he takes fifteen minutes to build an AI tool that he plans to look at every contract the VA has and it’ll tell him which ones were fraud, waste, and abuse. A shitty AI tool that was filled with bugs and obviously didn’t understand what it was looking for.
He has some other ideas like „update the software the government uses“. And someone explain to him „Yeah, no shit dude. We’ve already got people working on it, but a system that serves millions of vets takes more to get stuff done than fifteen minutes from a single guy.“
Someone had to pull him aside and explain to him that everyone in the building was scared to death of the DOGE dude. You know, the guy representing the agency which had taken a hatchet to every department it touched and caused mass layoffs.
He gets pulled into a meeting with Elon himself, and is saddened to learn that instead of getting guidance from his hero, Elon just spouts nonsense buzzwords at them for four hours while forcing them to stand because no one thought to bring in chairs.
Basically, Einstein this guy ain’t.
And then he proves that even more by talking to reporters and saying stuff like „Turns out the government actually knows what it’s doing.“ Which leads to him finding out he’s fired not by anyone saying „You’re fired“ but when he tried to login to do some work one morning and he username didn’t work.
Oh, and those billions upon billions of dollars he thought he could save the VA? Elon says that his guy at the VA saved them $380,000 a month by replacing contractors who had the job of updating government websites with in-house personnel.
Only thing is, that ‚personnel‘ was just him. One guy, responsible for updating every web page the VA touched. And who had now been fired.
So not everyone at DOGE was a Nazi. Some of them are just really, really, extremely, dumb.