Der ehemalige Bethesda-Manager ist der Meinung, dass das Studio mehr Respekt vor den komplexen, offenen Welten bekommen sollte, die es schafft: „Probieren Sie das in Red Dead Redemption 2 aus“ | Obwohl Pete Hines vor drei Jahren in den Ruhestand ging, bleibt er einer der treuesten Verteidiger des Studios.
https://www.pcgamer.com/gaming-industry/former-bethesda-exec-thinks-the-studio-should-get-more-respect-for-the-complex-open-worlds-it-creates-go-try-that-s-t-in-red-dead-redemption-2/
49 Kommentare
Ah yes, the same Pete who cut down on dialogue and storylines because he didn’t have the attention span to read them. Some of us aren’t illiterate fucks, Pete..
I always find dissing someone else’s work makes your point seem more valid. /s
They do get a lot of respect for the open worlds they create. They also get criticism for taking a billion years per title, and a mountain of bugs coming from the complexity of that large open world
they are so right. i don’t think i even saw multiple loading screens, after the first one. unless i did a fast travel via an ingame wagon.
What an odd target to pick because getting distracted and doing quests out of order is absolutely some shit you can do in RDR2 while also getting emotionally invested in a story and characters if you want.
Want to get whacky with the physics simulation? Have you even seen the lasso?
The same dude who said logic and continuity doesn’t matter in Fallout since it’s sci-fi. Probably the only person who can rival Randy Pitchford in sheer stupidity and level of delusion.
I bought skyrim on 3 platforms… the fuck else do they want from me?
Fallout 4 and 76 story is dog shit
>“Who else out in the world allows you to just stack up one quest after another on the fly while you’re going wherever you want and doing whatever you want?“ Hines said. „Go try that shit in Red Dead Redemption 2.“
>“[Start a quest], then try and stop doing that quest and do something else and see what the game does. What does the game do? It says, no fucking way. Pick one of these. We’re not keeping track of all this shit at the same time.“
Literally tons of open world games let you ignore the story and do side stuff. And unlike Bethesda games, which are full of handmade side areas to explore, a lot of those other open worlds have randomly generated encounters. That can make the world feel more alive and responsive towards the player’s actions.
I would say one of the reasons Bethesda doesn’t get as much respect as it *could* (not should) is because they release titles with *tons* of bugs that take a while to fix, and because they tend to have shitty combat/movement. The latter has always been one of the weakest parts of their games.
I will take a simple steak over a complex pile of dogshit
What a way to shoot yourself in the foot and neuter your own argument – by picking a rockstar game as a comparison point…
RDR2 is literally the poster child for one of the best open worlds with organic, natural and nigh endless feeling adventure…
Complexity needs to be implemented correctly and in the right areas. For instance, I cannot give one solitary shit about any story beat in Starfield or any other Bethesda game due to the fact that every character I come into contact with does one of two things: A- They tell me about their desperate terrible plight with the posture and expression of a stone faced Tower of London guard, and the emotion of a Vulcan. Or B- Five of them vomit out their entire life story at the same time when I come within 20 feet of them. Bethesda is wholly incapable of evolving their game design. We’ve been playing the same game since Morrowind. Except at least that was an actual RPG. I have zero faith or interest in the next Elder Scrolls.
Would respect them more if they actually respected their player base. Every game going forth has nerfed the RP element of the games since Oblivion.
Red dead is most definitely the wrong title to compare to, that game is levels above anything Bethesda has put out
Well, we can at least go try that in RDR 2, because that game came out. We’ve been waiting for an Elder Scrolls numbered entry for… [checks watch] *fifteen years*.
What about respecting customers by not releasing bugged mess using dated engine? Or stopping using modders to fix your games?
Bethesda has never made a game with Red Dead Redemption 2 production values and never will. A Bethesda game is like a ton of mystery meat, while a Rockstar game is a significant amount of quality beef.
I love The Elder Scrolls and Bethesda games, I love Red Dead. Pete needs to lay off whatever sauce he’s on.
Microslop fired a bunch of people, including bethesda, last year.
That’s some real disrespect. Complain about that instead.
I think this is a silly comparison. Rockstar games are narrative driven stories, where Bethesda prefers to make large open non narrative driven worlds. Rockstar focuses more on the story and characters in their sandbox, Bethesda focus on environment and breadth of things to do. It’s apples and oranges.
Not sure RDR2 is the best one to pick on here – this is a game that got so detailed that even the horses poop. I will add I’ve never once seen an animal do that in a Bethesda game.
Bethesda, Bethesda… seems familiar….? Oh, right, didn’t they make games 10-15 years ago? I wonder what they’re up to now…
How much stock does he still own in them?
hes using the word complex ironically right?
RDR2 is how you make an open world.
I don’t want running into some event every 2 minutes walking in one direction.
But BS master Hines shouldn’t talk. They’ve been dumbing down every game after Morrowind.
Complex? Starfield is the Netflix of open world games
I swear all the (ex-)heads at Bethesda got such massive ego’s after Skyrim that they’re completely blind to the fact that they’re still stuck in the early 2000’s. It’s just getting sad at this point.
What gets me is that RDR2 feels *alive* in a way that Starfield doesn’t, or to an extent Fallout 4. It’s not just that your actions matter and have an impact on the world — there are games that are equally as good or better at that. It’s the number of options you have in random interactions (even with unnamed NPCs), your ability to do things like rob any store, the unpredictability of certain kinds of random encounters. You can’t guarantee what’s going to happen, and accidentally doing something has serious consequences even when in other games, that same thing (like accidentally hitting the button to pull out your gun) has somewhere between zero and few consequences.
I’d actually argue that Avowed has decisions that impact your character’s interactions more than RDR2 does, at least in some ways. But that game (despite being fun and beautiful — hot take) still doesn’t have that same feeling of aliveness or interaction. The Witcher 3 comes close in a sense, but even that feels much more static in some ways.
Versus Starfield, which uses procedural generation and random events in ways that exclusively make the game less fun, has the most bland setting that I’ve ever seen with factions that include one barely seen organization, the government from Starship Troopers, and a libertarian confederacy which is genuinely run by incompetents. Bland and mostly just bad visual design is compounded by bland characters and quests. There’s so much that’s conceptually good and interesting that was poorly executed or hidden deep underneath as subtext. „Oh, this has some cool implications, but look at what they actually did with it.“
A Bethesda style RPG with a vaguely science fantasy setting and NASA punk aesthetic is *so* my jam. All they did was disappoint me.
RDR2 is amazing instead of disappointing. Everything that I don’t like about westerns as a setting doesn’t matter, because it makes up for that with incredible gameplay, visual designs, characters, and quest lines. Contrast Starfield, which is conceptually really fucking cool, but failed to execute those concepts with anything even basically approaching competence.
Bethesda’s story’s and gameplay feel extremely dated these days. They make games incredibly slowly and they look and play like fallout 3 they should really sublet out every other Fallout and ES to other studios so they can make 2 games a decade instead of 1.
Great Pete, we can take on 36 quests at a time, which basically means they lose any sense of importance or urgency, on top of that you have to keep them simple so players can keep track of the grocery list of menial tasks set in front of them. Big win there.
Because you know, I’m sure while playing RDR2, we all thought to ourselves, I’d sure love to just take on 3 more quests and do something else instead of finishing this mission that I’m on.
Bethesda has been making the same game for 15 years
Bethesda made some great games, 20 years ago. Their engine, games and ideas are all stale shit.
I love BGS, and I’m actually a huge fan of Starfield (just was playing it 2 minutes ok), but I think BGS could learn from R* specifically in the was that you can interact with the environment in RDR2.
Why can’t I use more mundane objects in Starfield? For instance, the weight rack. The animation already exists, but you need a mod to do it yourself. RDR2 and GTA are littered with little ways you can interact with the environment.
The time from the last ElderScrolls game released to today is the time it took for Nintendo to release the NES,the Super NES, N64 and we are about to reach GameCube.
RDR2 was a masterclass in storytelling and immersive gameplay. Starfield was at best shiny 4/10 turd. Bethesdas best days are quite clearly way behind them.
Weird to take a shot at RDR2 considering it’s one of the deepest open world games ever made with an astonishing level of detail (and nowhere near as glitchy and broken as 90 percent of Bethesda games)
Playing Starfield now and it’s pretty dated feeling.
If No Mans Sky had a million VA’d quests, it’s an objecvely stronger game in every major gameplay respect, with maybe an exception on gunplay.
They are both weak at gunplay.
I feel like I’m playing a totke designed in 2013.
I love how they think „its hard“ as a defense of a product while charging you money for said product
I mean, I will grant him, I’ve never been able to launch a horse at the moon in RDR2.
Idk man I’ve been playing Crimson Desert and I already don’t think Bethesda can trump this, even with a new engine
What are all these supposed systems that would be impossible to create in other engines?
If it were in Red Dead it would work properly.
Bethesda sucks
What the fuck is he talking about. Bethesda open world games are not special anymore, they haven’t felt special since Skyrim, and even then some argue they lost that unique complexity.
The industry and the genre moved on, in part because of Bethesda, other developers learnt from what they did and built on it while Bethesda kept doing the same.
Starfield was the culmination of Bethesda refusing to adapt and resting on their laurels. The fact they refuse, even to this day to acknowledge starfield shortfalls tells me they don’t see a problem.
Also comparing Bethesda’s quality to a rockstar title is a fools game. Fallout 76 released without any NPC’s FFS.
I received some armor rating bug in my 4th or 5th Skyrim playthrough.
In my first KCD2 playthrough I couldn’t finish the main quest line because of a bug originating from doing a DLC first.
Try that in a small town.
Bethesda games are an essay in the follies of siloed development and hiding linear progression in a mire of a „sandbox“. The enshittification of exploration and adventure into convenient hallway dungeons where there are always lit torches and dialogue options pulled from a hat. The classic AAA company bullshiting their game for over a decade while the rest of the market grows and learns in the genre and completely punks on every single gameplay mechanic.
Dude has been in marketing and publishing, as an exec. He needs to shut the fuck up. He is not now, nor has he ever been involved in actually MAKING the games, and knows literally nothing about how complex they are beyond buzzwords and industry copy slang.
I agree that nothing hits quite like Skyrim or FO3, but those were a long time ago. FO76 and Starfield are not irredeemable, but they were major misfires in comparison and are the only games of significance for them in the last 11 years. If they still have the chops, they better bring it for ES6.