>the British could appreciate the aesthetic cultural value of Irish and acknowledge its importance and relevance as historical heritage. They were tolerant of the symbolic appeal of Irish among the people and of its limited practice in civic institutions and education.
Were they fuck.
poochie77 on
Tiocfaidh ár lá
mind_thegap1 on
One thing that kind of annoys me is how state bodies seem to be just English, like on the buses and trains it’s TFI instead of CIÉ or Iarnród Éireann, and on the ads their slogan is ‘Is sinne Transport for Ireland’ ?
(Disclaimer I haven’t read the article, paywall)
PremiumTempus on
If anyone in government cared about the Irish language, the first thing they would do is get rid of the disaster that is the leaving cert course, and switch all Irish classes to strictly oral classes. 99% of examination should be oral. That is how you preserve a language, with more people being able to SPEAK it.
BazingaQQ on
„Power class“ – what the fuck is a „power class“?
I mean, we already know that those in power offer little more than token support for the language – but I’d hardly refer to them as a „class“.
mrlinkwii on
they dont , its just the fact its being shoved down people through in education it creates resentment ,
let irish be option at the leaving cert and let the people who want to learn it , learn it
PintmanConnolly on
True. It’s a neo-colonial comprador class that administers state affairs primarily in the interests of foreign imperialist powers (historically mainly Britain, now mainly the US). The Irish state functions as a glove through which the hands of foreign economic imperialist powers can maintain their economic interests.
You need only look at the top 10 largest companies in Ireland today – 8 of whom are US corporations.
What we are dominated by in Ireland today is not Irish capitalism, but American capitalism in Ireland.
Leading_Ad9610 on
Theres a plethora of reasons for that; but one of them was intellectual snobbery; for example; for anyone who sat their leaving in the 90’s and 00’s etc… the Cao was/is basically a intellectual grading system; doing subjects through Irish and getting the bonus points put people higher up the chain that they actually were…
Back then the higher points courses had a massive drop out of people who did subjects through Irish because they simply couldn’t keep up. It got to the point where there was a derogatory feeling towards them as they tended to wind up bottom in the quarter of most classes they were in.
Take med or vet for example, you effectively needed 6A1’s to get in…but if you did it via Irish you needed 6A2’s (540)… which is still a very hard ask, but it put people up against the people who could get 6a1’s(600). And they tended to look down on the people who used Irish to make up the difference. The same applied all the way down the chain as people tend to take the coarse with the highest points they can.
Noobeater1 on
Irish language activists could really do with being less annoying tbh, that’s a really eye-rolly headline
Irishwol on
Ireland ‚power class‘ has a colonial attitude in general tbh. Culture, welfare, the ecosystem, people: all inconveniences to the smooth running of their ‚economy‘.
Custodes003 on
I had to double check that this article wasn’t satire. A State that has Irish as its first language, makes it obligatory for people to take it all the way to the end of secondary school, has designated and supported Irish language areas, legal rules around signage and document translations … and it’s being ignored by some mythical pro-English ruling class? Come on lads – the country is a democracy. You get what people want.
Also, I know that the ‘poor me, I’m being oppressed’ take from some (not all) in the Irish language community is kind of their thing, but you’d think they’d be at least partially self aware.
dropthecoin on
It’s hard to take seriously these takes when they make up terms like “power class” .
It’s Basically a term with no strict definition or application. But useful to group people to help people understand/divide based on their own preferences. It’s a vague, political loaded term that would multiple definitions depending on what people perceive. Just like what we are seeing in the comments here.
In real world and statistical definitions it’s a political/ideological term, just like the term working class. Not an actual categorical one.
Due_Jacket_1663 on
The one thing about Irish that remains constant is the ‚groundhog day‘ style debates around it.
Fealocht on
Irish is declining because Irish people are not interested in learning it.
Blaming the education system or some ‚colonial attitude‘ is just pure cope.
mannix67 on
I think most of the blame for our language being dead primarily lies with the Irish now.
We have had 100 odd years where the ball was in our court in regards to reviving it and we have completely butchered it, mostly through lack of will from the Irish people.
It is not rocket science to revive a language. The Jews did it with Hebrew , the Czechs did it with their language.
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>the British could appreciate the aesthetic cultural value of Irish and acknowledge its importance and relevance as historical heritage. They were tolerant of the symbolic appeal of Irish among the people and of its limited practice in civic institutions and education.
Were they fuck.
Tiocfaidh ár lá
One thing that kind of annoys me is how state bodies seem to be just English, like on the buses and trains it’s TFI instead of CIÉ or Iarnród Éireann, and on the ads their slogan is ‘Is sinne Transport for Ireland’ ?
(Disclaimer I haven’t read the article, paywall)
If anyone in government cared about the Irish language, the first thing they would do is get rid of the disaster that is the leaving cert course, and switch all Irish classes to strictly oral classes. 99% of examination should be oral. That is how you preserve a language, with more people being able to SPEAK it.
„Power class“ – what the fuck is a „power class“?
I mean, we already know that those in power offer little more than token support for the language – but I’d hardly refer to them as a „class“.
they dont , its just the fact its being shoved down people through in education it creates resentment ,
let irish be option at the leaving cert and let the people who want to learn it , learn it
True. It’s a neo-colonial comprador class that administers state affairs primarily in the interests of foreign imperialist powers (historically mainly Britain, now mainly the US). The Irish state functions as a glove through which the hands of foreign economic imperialist powers can maintain their economic interests.
You need only look at the top 10 largest companies in Ireland today – 8 of whom are US corporations.
What we are dominated by in Ireland today is not Irish capitalism, but American capitalism in Ireland.
Theres a plethora of reasons for that; but one of them was intellectual snobbery; for example; for anyone who sat their leaving in the 90’s and 00’s etc… the Cao was/is basically a intellectual grading system; doing subjects through Irish and getting the bonus points put people higher up the chain that they actually were…
Back then the higher points courses had a massive drop out of people who did subjects through Irish because they simply couldn’t keep up. It got to the point where there was a derogatory feeling towards them as they tended to wind up bottom in the quarter of most classes they were in.
Take med or vet for example, you effectively needed 6A1’s to get in…but if you did it via Irish you needed 6A2’s (540)… which is still a very hard ask, but it put people up against the people who could get 6a1’s(600). And they tended to look down on the people who used Irish to make up the difference. The same applied all the way down the chain as people tend to take the coarse with the highest points they can.
Irish language activists could really do with being less annoying tbh, that’s a really eye-rolly headline
Ireland ‚power class‘ has a colonial attitude in general tbh. Culture, welfare, the ecosystem, people: all inconveniences to the smooth running of their ‚economy‘.
I had to double check that this article wasn’t satire. A State that has Irish as its first language, makes it obligatory for people to take it all the way to the end of secondary school, has designated and supported Irish language areas, legal rules around signage and document translations … and it’s being ignored by some mythical pro-English ruling class? Come on lads – the country is a democracy. You get what people want.
Also, I know that the ‘poor me, I’m being oppressed’ take from some (not all) in the Irish language community is kind of their thing, but you’d think they’d be at least partially self aware.
It’s hard to take seriously these takes when they make up terms like “power class” .
It’s Basically a term with no strict definition or application. But useful to group people to help people understand/divide based on their own preferences. It’s a vague, political loaded term that would multiple definitions depending on what people perceive. Just like what we are seeing in the comments here.
In real world and statistical definitions it’s a political/ideological term, just like the term working class. Not an actual categorical one.
The one thing about Irish that remains constant is the ‚groundhog day‘ style debates around it.
Irish is declining because Irish people are not interested in learning it.
Blaming the education system or some ‚colonial attitude‘ is just pure cope.
I think most of the blame for our language being dead primarily lies with the Irish now.
We have had 100 odd years where the ball was in our court in regards to reviving it and we have completely butchered it, mostly through lack of will from the Irish people.
It is not rocket science to revive a language. The Jews did it with Hebrew , the Czechs did it with their language.