You are never going to build a major project without a story like this, someone losing their job or livelihood.
It sucks.
But so does not having these things.
MTL_Dude666 on
“It’s just going to roar right through the countryside and destroy it and bisect communities,”
“The school bus that picks up my neighbour’s kids is going to be longer. Every single movement that we make is going to be more difficult,”
„In Quebec, a long line of tractors rumbled through the streets of Mirabel north of Montreal last week as farmers protested the potential disruption to their lives and livelihoods.“
The perfect expression of **NIMBY**.
KvotheG on
>Alto has said the benefits of the project range from greater economic output, job growth and tourism revenue to emissions reduction and safer travel.
The rail line would make for a three-hour trip between Toronto and Montreal and less than one hour between Montreal and Ottawa — the first leg set for construction, with shovels expected to hit the ground in less than five years.
The benefits outweigh the costs. If we stopped building major projects just to appease a minority of affected people, then we will never get anything done. Obviously, there should be fair considerations to reduce the negative impact to small rural communities, but we shouldn’t give in to NIMBYism.
j821c on
Shocking. Can’t build anything without someone complaining. This needs to just plow ahead regardless because the benefits are too great to pass up
Krazy-Vaclav on
In my neighbourhood in Ottawa people flipped out over a six-story apartment building. People even started organising to picket the new McDonald’s because it goes against the character of the neighbourhood.
Just let these people yap angrily, ignore them, and build what you gotta build.
Politicalshrimp on
if only there was this much fight over the expansion of highways. I understand their concerns, it sucks to have something built through your community that your community won’t directly benefit from, but also this is a project that will in-directly and directly benefit the entire corridor region, and if successful will allow for expansion (ie. Toronto – Windsor, Toronto – Montreal through Kingston, Edmonton – Calgary, Vancouver – Seattle)
seemefail on
This country will not be some future super power.
This country is one of the least productive of the wealthy nations. We make our money on the back of a resource extraction which is mostly stagnant for the last 11 years, this is coming from a guy that has voted liberal, even in the last election.
But how will we ever achieve great things when we can’t even get basic housing built at a scale that we once did?
First new mine built under DRIPA in BC required 2 billion in direct benefits to the local First Nation equaling 550,000 payment to each individual band member if you use the largest estimation of their population. Which sure one mine got built but many won’t be able to project such insane profits to make something like that work.
Last I checked a billion dollar resource road in Ontario was being picketed by the very communities it serves because of individual wants…
Not to mention every just generally has gotten worse in the western world for most my adult life.
Section37 on
My cottage is in South Frontenac, so I get where the guy in the beginning of the article is coming from. But I’m sure people in Madoc, etc. on the potential northern alignment feel the same too.
Also, I suspect 9/10s of the objections from South Frontenac would disappear if there were a stop in Kingston. It does seem strange to propose a high speed rail line skirting just north of Kingston with no stop servicing it. It’s a legit city, and with the universities, it probably has more potential rail users than other similarly sized places. Maybe there’s just no way to make it work, but it does seem like a missed opportunity to develop the area (and also undercut the NIMBYism)
jello_sweaters on
‚member when Trudeau got in a ton of trouble for saying how much easier he felt China’s government had it when trying to build infrastructure?
This is why.
I’m not saying he was entirely right – property rights are important – but when a few landowners are the reason a project of national benefit can’t happen, that’s a problem.
Traditional-Bird4327 on
Outside of the properties being expropriated there are 3 types of landowners impacted by this:
Group 1- proximity to a train station increases the value of their property, but they are far enough away from the tracks that their enjoyment of their property isn’t negatively impacted. Net gain.
Group 2- close proximity to train drops the value of their property and their enjoyment of their property, but close access to a stop also adds property value. Net neutral.
Group 3- close proximity to tracks drops property value and enjoyment of property while far distance to station adds no value back. Net negative.
The vast majority of rural communities fall squarely into group 3. If the government wanted to throw a bone to rural communities they would add a stop somewhere between Peterborough and Ottawa. They haven’t, therefore people are justifiably upset because there is no upside for these impacted communities.
MrBartokomous on
Given the number of people who will benefit… I’m sorry but tough shit. Gov’t should reasonably compensate folks if they need to expropriate, but trying to stop a project that’ll benefit millions is pure selfishness.
mrwobblez on
Shouldn’t be optimizing for overall benefit? It sucks for the homeowner who feels like this is going to be a drag on their property value and lifestyle, but it also sucks for the millions of Canadians who have to haul ass to the airport to take an 1 hr flight between Montreal and Toronto, it sucks for the environment to fly hundreds of planes a day when high speed rail is a far cleaner, it sucks if someone from Quebec City would rather fly to NYC as opposed to take the high speed rail to Toronto because the domestic airfare costs are so high.
kittyonkeyboards on
Nimbyism has been the number one cause of civilizational stagnation in the modern age.
It is an enemy to progress of the human species.
CaptainCanusa on
> Caroline Stephenson of Madoc, Ont., worries that the walled-off, dedicated track will block country roads and create longer, bottleneck-prone drives for commuters
Shut down the massive, interprovincial, multi-billion dollar high speed rail project connecting our largest cities, boys! Caroline’s worried it *might* impact her commute in Madoc.
Seriously though this is obviously why it’s so hard to get anything done. You need to take communities concerns very seriously, but you also need a government willing to say „this is for the greater good, sorry“ and just end the hysterics.
> “My seven-year-old son is asking if there is going to be a train coming through our house,” Glenn said, tearful. “We don’t have answers.”
What are we doing here? My god this is embarrassing.
db7fromthe6 on
Peak Trudeau silliness this won’t happen. Just another expensive high speed rail plan for liberal engineering companies.
Shoddy_Operation_742 on
This project will never be built this century. These major projects are impossible to build in Canada with opposition coming from every corner
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16 Kommentare
You are never going to build a major project without a story like this, someone losing their job or livelihood.
It sucks.
But so does not having these things.
“It’s just going to roar right through the countryside and destroy it and bisect communities,”
“The school bus that picks up my neighbour’s kids is going to be longer. Every single movement that we make is going to be more difficult,”
„In Quebec, a long line of tractors rumbled through the streets of Mirabel north of Montreal last week as farmers protested the potential disruption to their lives and livelihoods.“
The perfect expression of **NIMBY**.
>Alto has said the benefits of the project range from greater economic output, job growth and tourism revenue to emissions reduction and safer travel.
The rail line would make for a three-hour trip between Toronto and Montreal and less than one hour between Montreal and Ottawa — the first leg set for construction, with shovels expected to hit the ground in less than five years.
The benefits outweigh the costs. If we stopped building major projects just to appease a minority of affected people, then we will never get anything done. Obviously, there should be fair considerations to reduce the negative impact to small rural communities, but we shouldn’t give in to NIMBYism.
Shocking. Can’t build anything without someone complaining. This needs to just plow ahead regardless because the benefits are too great to pass up
In my neighbourhood in Ottawa people flipped out over a six-story apartment building. People even started organising to picket the new McDonald’s because it goes against the character of the neighbourhood.
Just let these people yap angrily, ignore them, and build what you gotta build.
if only there was this much fight over the expansion of highways. I understand their concerns, it sucks to have something built through your community that your community won’t directly benefit from, but also this is a project that will in-directly and directly benefit the entire corridor region, and if successful will allow for expansion (ie. Toronto – Windsor, Toronto – Montreal through Kingston, Edmonton – Calgary, Vancouver – Seattle)
This country will not be some future super power.
This country is one of the least productive of the wealthy nations. We make our money on the back of a resource extraction which is mostly stagnant for the last 11 years, this is coming from a guy that has voted liberal, even in the last election.
But how will we ever achieve great things when we can’t even get basic housing built at a scale that we once did?
First new mine built under DRIPA in BC required 2 billion in direct benefits to the local First Nation equaling 550,000 payment to each individual band member if you use the largest estimation of their population. Which sure one mine got built but many won’t be able to project such insane profits to make something like that work.
Last I checked a billion dollar resource road in Ontario was being picketed by the very communities it serves because of individual wants…
Not to mention every just generally has gotten worse in the western world for most my adult life.
My cottage is in South Frontenac, so I get where the guy in the beginning of the article is coming from. But I’m sure people in Madoc, etc. on the potential northern alignment feel the same too.
Also, I suspect 9/10s of the objections from South Frontenac would disappear if there were a stop in Kingston. It does seem strange to propose a high speed rail line skirting just north of Kingston with no stop servicing it. It’s a legit city, and with the universities, it probably has more potential rail users than other similarly sized places. Maybe there’s just no way to make it work, but it does seem like a missed opportunity to develop the area (and also undercut the NIMBYism)
‚member when Trudeau got in a ton of trouble for saying how much easier he felt China’s government had it when trying to build infrastructure?
This is why.
I’m not saying he was entirely right – property rights are important – but when a few landowners are the reason a project of national benefit can’t happen, that’s a problem.
Outside of the properties being expropriated there are 3 types of landowners impacted by this:
Group 1- proximity to a train station increases the value of their property, but they are far enough away from the tracks that their enjoyment of their property isn’t negatively impacted. Net gain.
Group 2- close proximity to train drops the value of their property and their enjoyment of their property, but close access to a stop also adds property value. Net neutral.
Group 3- close proximity to tracks drops property value and enjoyment of property while far distance to station adds no value back. Net negative.
The vast majority of rural communities fall squarely into group 3. If the government wanted to throw a bone to rural communities they would add a stop somewhere between Peterborough and Ottawa. They haven’t, therefore people are justifiably upset because there is no upside for these impacted communities.
Given the number of people who will benefit… I’m sorry but tough shit. Gov’t should reasonably compensate folks if they need to expropriate, but trying to stop a project that’ll benefit millions is pure selfishness.
Shouldn’t be optimizing for overall benefit? It sucks for the homeowner who feels like this is going to be a drag on their property value and lifestyle, but it also sucks for the millions of Canadians who have to haul ass to the airport to take an 1 hr flight between Montreal and Toronto, it sucks for the environment to fly hundreds of planes a day when high speed rail is a far cleaner, it sucks if someone from Quebec City would rather fly to NYC as opposed to take the high speed rail to Toronto because the domestic airfare costs are so high.
Nimbyism has been the number one cause of civilizational stagnation in the modern age.
It is an enemy to progress of the human species.
> Caroline Stephenson of Madoc, Ont., worries that the walled-off, dedicated track will block country roads and create longer, bottleneck-prone drives for commuters
Shut down the massive, interprovincial, multi-billion dollar high speed rail project connecting our largest cities, boys! Caroline’s worried it *might* impact her commute in Madoc.
Seriously though this is obviously why it’s so hard to get anything done. You need to take communities concerns very seriously, but you also need a government willing to say „this is for the greater good, sorry“ and just end the hysterics.
> “My seven-year-old son is asking if there is going to be a train coming through our house,” Glenn said, tearful. “We don’t have answers.”
What are we doing here? My god this is embarrassing.
Peak Trudeau silliness this won’t happen. Just another expensive high speed rail plan for liberal engineering companies.
This project will never be built this century. These major projects are impossible to build in Canada with opposition coming from every corner