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    Der Pieptontest gilt als diskriminierend gegenüber Frauen und aus Altersgründen

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    1. Spiritual_Mall_3140 on

      I mean if we want a representative and equal society the normalisation of the metric we use for hiring and testing have to take into account age and gender. It’s already a done thing across much of the public sector where fitness and strength is tested, if it takes an 8k payout of this manner to get the cork firefighters to implement better policies then that’s a solid result.

    3. FatherlyNick on

      Isn’t the whole point of a test – to discriminate based on score and no other factor?
      Otherwise there’s no point in doing the test – everyone gets a pass.

      A fair the test doesn’t care who you are or your age, only about the result you get. wtf is this ruling?

    4. Bill_Badbody on

      >without the application of a normative table that considers age and gender in determining the final score, was both directly discriminatory towards Foott and indirectly discriminatory against women,

      This is obvious to anyone who has used or run these types of tests.

      All these type of tables are easily available online.

    5. AUX4 on

      What a mad ruling.

      Minimum fitness standards are required regardless of any other factor.

    6. Pleasant_Birthday_77 on

      I suppose they weren’t able to demonstrate why the beep test standards shouldn’t be adjusted for different groups to the court’s satisfaction. This is the spot where anti discrimination measures and job suitability intersecting. Can a woman who has the equivalent but not equal fitness as a man of the same age perform the role as well and if not, is it what you reckon or can you demonstrate it?

    7. Original2056 on

      If im in a burning building i dont give a fook if a man woman or child is rescuing me. I want the fittest and best person for the job.

    8. MushroomBig1861 on

      Fires, RTAs and natural disasters don’t care what sex or age you are, for this reason, the fitness test must not, either, the standard must be whatever is needed for the person to carry out their duties safely and effectively.

    9. NotAnotherOne2024 on

      Here’s hoping Cork City Council appeal the decision as it sets a terrible precedent for any unsuccessful individual to claim discrimination instead of taken personal responsibility for their own failure.

    10. Smart_Highway_7011 on

      Will this set precedent with other jobs like this?

      I just dont get how the persons relative fitness in comparison to their age or gender matters in an area where we’re looking for greatest absolute fitness, seems like it could lead to some mad stuff for emergency services selection process.

      Also hilarious to call a universal test with equal treatment for all applicants discriminatory.

    12. svmk1987 on

      I am not one of those folks who go around ranting about „DEI“, but surely for a firefighter job, you need a standard fitness test, and not give extra considerations for age and gender? If a fire is ravaging a building and people are trapped inside, they aren’t gonna suffocate more slowly if there’s an older firefighter coming to rescue him. This is one of the few jobs where you actually need to fire the most physically fit people.

    13. coddlesangers on

      Bit nuanced so therefore completely useless to have the chat on reddit, but if they for example do not test all firefighters yearly, this argument about her level is moot. There is every chance she’s fitter than some 50 year old lad who became a firefighter in 1995 and hasn’t been tested since

    14. notaukrainian on

      Running a bleep test isn’t really comparable of what it’s like to have to actually fight a fire or escue someone. Maybe using a test that is more reflective, and having one set pass mark for everyone, whatever their age/sex, is a better way of doing it.

    15. Legal-Actuary4537 on

      I am just leaving this here.

      [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/BZEB1rbm4q4](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/BZEB1rbm4q4)

      If a woman in her forties gets a full time job in the Fire Brigade and goes menopausal along with Osteoporosis then all they will be fit for up until retirement age will be to roll out the cordon tapes

    18. creakingwall on

      Why not just reduce the baseline for everyone? Otherwise you’re discriminating against men fmby giving them a harder test.

    20. MosmanWhale on

      There is different levels to a beep test. It gets faster the higher the level you go up. If you can’t get past the first 2 levels though you should be worried about your general fitness

    21. Jamie352 on

      Does anyone know if you ever have to redo the test, or once you pass, is that it for life? While I don’t agree that there should be an easier test for women, you could easily have a situation where someone who passed the test in their 20s is less fit by the time they’re in their 40s than someone who can’t pass it in their 40s.

    24. Otherwise-Winner9643 on

      As a woman, I think this is ridiculous. For jobs that genuinely require strength and speed, then the minimum bar needs to be reached, regardless of gender.

    26. InfectedAztec on

      If you treat women differently based on gender you get sued.

      Now if you dont treat them differently based on gender you get sued.

    28. SnooChickens1534 on

      Apparently , women can do everything a man can do …. except a beep test

    29. tazire on

      This judgment is basically…. You must discriminate against young males in beep tests. This is going to create a situation whereby a young male won’t meet their standard for the beep test but far exceeds that required for an older female. This results in the older female getting the position in spite of the younger male being more qualified from a fitness perspective. And when it comes to life saving jobs you are quite literally putting lives at risk with judgments like this.

    30. Roymundo on

      „he can run fair quick for a 100 year auld lad.
      Go on, Jim, mark him down as 10 points, same as 20 year old GAA champion Tom here,“

      What silly shit.

    33. asdrunkasdrunkcanbe on

      For a bit of clarity on the issue here:

      >Glazier Farmer found that the beep test, without the application of a normative table that considers age and gender in determining the final score, was both directly discriminatory towards Foott and indirectly discriminatory against women, while giving younger candidates a distinct advantage.

      …

      As part of the job application process Foott was required to undergo a fitness test on 17 November 2023 and she passed every element of the test except the aerobic component.

      It’s discriminatory in the sense that it doesn’t account for age and gender, where that might be appropriate.

      A beep test measures a certain type of fitness, not overall fitness. There are plenty of fit people who’d put in a disappointing score on a bleep test because they aren’t runners, or they have injuries which make it unsafe to make a sharp reverse.

      The „passing“ score for the bleep test should be graded based on the age and gender of the applicant to account for some natural degradation in speed and endurance.

      In this case, where she passed every other element of the test, a younger candidate who performed worse than her in every other part of the test – but did pass the bleep test – would be accepted, where she wouldn’t. Which means that worse candidates will be accepted, solely based on their age and gender.

      And unless Cork CC can demonstrate that the one-size-fits-all score in the bleep test is critical to the requirements, then it is illegal discrimination based on age and gender.

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