Hallo zusammen!
Mein Partner und ich denken ernsthaft darüber nach, dorthin zu ziehen entweder Kattowitz oder Breslau. Wir kommen aus UE. Wir interessieren uns hauptsächlich für Städte in der südwestlicher Teil Polensaber wir sind offen für andere Empfehlungen, wenn es Bereiche gibt, die eine bessere Balance für unseren Lebensstil bieten. Für uns ist es am wichtigsten, einen Platz zu finden guter Zugang zur Natur und gute Beschäftigungsmöglichkeiten.
Wir besuchten beide Städte letzten September und mochten die Architektur, die Mischung aus Alt und Neu und die allgemeine „Entwicklungs“-Atmosphäre sehr.
Wir würden uns sehr über Ratschläge von Einheimischen und Expats zu einigen Themen freuen:
- Würden wir das tägliche Leben damit bewältigen? nur Englisch (Geschäfte, Ärzte, öffentliche Ämter, Papierkram, Nachbarn)?
- Er arbeitet in IT/Programmierungund ich arbeite darin Bildung / Marketing. Wie realistisch ist es, in und um Katowice einen Job zu finden? Nur Englisch?
- Wir planen es eine Wohnung kaufen (nicht mieten). Unser Budget ist bis zu 120.000 EUR (ohne Notargebühren und Steuern):
- Welche Stadtteile oder nahegelegenen Gebiete würden Sie empfehlen (sicher, gut angebunden, nicht zu laut, einigermaßen Zugang zu Grünflächen)?
- Gibt es Bereiche, die Sie persönlich meiden würden?
- Wie ist öffentliche Verkehrsmittel und Pendler innerhalb von Kattowitz / Breslau und im weiteren schlesischen Raum?
- Wie ist die Situation mit Natur und Grünflächen um beide Städte? Wohin gehen die Einheimischen normalerweise spazieren, an einen See, wandern oder entspannen sich im Freien?
- Was für Wochenendaktivitäten sind beliebt (sowohl Outdoor als auch Indoor: Spa, Sauna, Pools, Kultur, Events etc.)?
- Wie ist das aufgeschlossene Gemeinschaft in Kattowitz / Breslau und der Region Schlesien?
- Wie ist das Luftqualität das ganze Jahr über? Wir haben gemischte Meinungen gelesen und würden uns über eine lokale Perspektive freuen.
- Irgendein General Tipps für Ausländer beim Immobilienkauf in Polen (häufige Fallstricke, Papierkram, zu überprüfende Dinge)?
Persönliche Erfahrungen oder Ratschläge würden uns sehr viel bedeuten.
Vielen Dank! 🌿
https://www.reddit.com/gallery/1qo9xc7
Von No-Egg8643
20 Kommentare
120k euro won’t get you more than 40sq m outside the city centre in any of those cities. Are you aware of that? and the rental market is wild west. There’s basically no regulation around that.
Wrocław is much bigger city (although Katowice is part of big metro area, but there’s not one „central“ city there). There will be more corporate jobs, more immigrants etc. there.
Katowice area used to be industrial backbone of country – with lots of mines, steelworks and other heavy industry. It is changing quickly but its industrial past is still clearly visible.
Air will be better in Wrocław.
Biggest drawback of Wrocław here will be prices – especially of properties. Your 120k eur will leave you very little choice there. Katowice are quite cheaper, but still I wouldn’t expect much.
Also I would recommend against buying flat in foreign country, foreign city without living there first. You might not get what you were hoping for. And money will be gone.
Kraków and Warszawa are the biggest markets for IT in Poland.
I was studying in Wrocław around 11 years ago and I sometimes visit it. City is beatufiul but I feel that it’s in stagnation state. Not top much green areas in the city, communication within the city is medium. Outside of the city there is Ślęża mountian for example. Katowice is closer to the mountians, which are interesting green area.
Probably Wrocław is more „open minded“ because a lot of people from abroad live there – mostly students.
In Katowice flats are cheaper.
I am not living there right now.
I consider moving to Warsaw or Katowice.
Wrocław is better overall IMO. Katowice has been doing well lately, but it’s still a post-industrial city, and not very walkable in many places. Wrocław is beautiful, vibrant, full of students, very relaxed, and has a strong technological sector. On top of that, it has a beautiful river and many scenic areas around it. Katowice doesn’t have that. But I recommend paying a visit as tourists to see for yourself before making a decision.
„He works in IT/programming, and I work in education / marketing…”
My colleague, a programmer with 20 years of experience working for a bank with C1 Polish and English, has been looking for a job across Poland for six months. The offers only started coming in, when he lowered salary expectations. The job market for programmers across Europe is terrible. It’s a mistake to assume that migration will help. Marketing and education are, after all, equally problematic industries. You have big plans, but I think you should research this topic first, simply by checking how you deal with Polish job market.
Katowice and Wrocław aren’t in the same voivodeship that you marked on the map. Katowice is Upper Silesia and Wrocław is Lower Silesia, which you marked on the map.
Wroclaw is awesome, go there
The air quality is terrible. It’s worse in Wrocław, but I don’t think it’s much better in Katowice. I know people who moved from Kraków (same air quality problem) to Gdańsk because of their children’s health issues. Until this problem is solved in Poland, I would only choose Gdańsk, even though I come from the region you are writing about.
It’s awesome in Wrocław
Do you need a residence permit in Poland? If yes then both Silesias are a terrible choice. Urząd Wojewódzki, Wydział Spraw Cudzoziemców in Wrocław is notoriously famous for crazy residence permit waiting time. Up to several YEARS!
As mentioned earlier, these are two separate regions, and when you hear about Silesia 90% of the time it is meant to be Upper Silesia (Katowice). For the questions:
1. You’ll be fine with English in most cases, however you’ll probably be „expected“ to learn at least basic Polish and it will be very handy in daily life. Most young people speak at least some basic English.
2. IT is no problem, marketing is extremely hard to get into right now, for education I suppose only teaching a foreign language.
3. You probably won’t be able buy an apartment in Wrocław for that amount (except very small ones), in Katowice it is possible. I’m not sure if being a foreigner is an obstacle here of any kind.
4. Wrocław has better public transport (beside the jokes, really) and Katowice a rather bad one (buses, my experience, lots of renovations right now), although Silesia (Lower) in general is well connected with trains, and the whole agglomeration is almost like „one city“. Both cities are interconnected by trains/buses departing every hour or so.
5. Depends on the neighborhood really, you can look for those closer to nature. Both cities have mountains 1-2hrs by train/car.
6. Like in any major city I would say, Wrocław has more cultural options/events in general.
7. The difference is really cities vs. small towns. West Poland is generally more liberal.
8. Pretty poor form November to March, buy an air purifier certainly if you are sensitive. In summer it’s good.
9. As mentioned before, no idea 🙁
I would add that if you consider moving here long-term, you should also want to sink into Polish culture, definitely learn the language and try to live like a local, we generally appreciate that and you’ll make friends way easier – at the beginning you won’t be expected e.g. to speak Polish at all, but after a year or two people will kinda expect that.
Can’t comment on these two cities specifically, but I can offer the following:
– the IT gravy train has left, currently there’s probably more positions being cut than created in Poland, so unless you have some niche / in-demand skills, you’ll be competing with locals, who already know the language (better „cultural“ fit)
– air quality seems to be anywhere between „terrible“ and „don’t go out“ pretty much anywhere in Poland apart from maybe the northern areas (although without wind and with specific meteorological conditions even those areas suffer) (edit: this is in winter due to people heating their homes by burning coal / trash / whatever they can get their hands on, it’s pretty normal in the spring / summer and part of autumn, but generally always worse down south).
– English only is fine at the start and you will get by, but anything admin / health related will be Polish only, so keep that in mind
I lived in Wroclaw for 5 years as a student. I instantly fell in love with the city the moment I moved there and still I think fondly of it. Although I’d say it’s not the same experience for people looking for a job as it is for students.
And where r u from?
IT is currently madness in Poland, no matter which city. So keep in mind that in first year you are likely to be the only one to have a job.
120k EUR is enough to buy only small flat. I mean something with single bedroom and a living room. Rather far from city center.
Air quality is much better in Wrocław. I mean, Silesian Metropolis is one of worst place in Poland in that matter.
Katowice is cheaper than Wrocław when it comes to price of property (by a wide margin), while being still a big business hub full of possibilities. You can also buy a flat very close to Katowice for even less $$$ Both have great public transport (I’d say Wrocław’s is better, but no clue why people say Kato’s is bad. I can easily get around anywhere and everywhere, on one 6 month ticket I can go to all the citities in the aglomeration, everything can be done through your phone app etc), Wrocław in my experience has more nice places to hang out and eat, there’s a lot of students, but being hellish when it comes to driving + it’s BIG.
I’m living in Katowice so I’m not sure about Wrocław’s nature, but in Katowice area you have the biggest park in Europe I believe (Silesia park) it’s twice the size of central park! There’s a lot of forested areas and lakes too, I doubt you’ll have any issues finding a place for a nice walk/cycling/horse riding etc. Wrocław has a better zoo, but one in Katowice/Chorzów is nothing to scoff at. As others said – Wrocław is one big city while Katowice is more of a central city in a biiiig connected area of smaller cities; it really feels like one big city though, commute wise.
Both Katowice and Wrocław have music festivals and other cultural events, I’ve been to concerts in both! I also love Katowice’s museums big and small. Both cities should be more than fine with English-only speakers.
Air quality in the south is just overall bad, people can fight in the comments but in winter it’s just bad everywhere.
Public transportation in Wroclaw is a meme. At one time you could bet if there will be more than 100 tram accidents within the year.
Nah, it is not that bad as people on the internet say. Source: I live there with no car. It’s just fine.
Wroclaw has a university/student and multicultural vibe, both cities however are modern European metropoles. Wroclaw is closer to the mountains (actually one tall range is some 30 minutes drive from the city and you can see it from the higher buildings). There are two top national parks in the region.
Katowice are better connected with the rest of the country, notably Warsaw and Krakow and seems a bit cheaper regarding the real estate market.
AI;DR
Katowice has terrible air quality in the winter (lot’s of burned coal) but on the other side lot’s of nature around. The city has a vibrant music scene (Rock, Blues, etc…) Life is more slow than in Krakow as it’s a smaller city but getting to Krakow on the weekend for party shouldn’t be that complicated. Renting a flat in Katowice is cheaper than in other bigger polish cities. The city has an airport which is big plus. I wouldn’t recommend to get an IT job in Poland. Get one abroad and „secretly“ relocate to Poland to enjoy the geographic arbitrage. This is of course much easier when you work in your own business not as an employee.