Hallo zusammen.
Soweit ich weiß, muss man als Ausländer neue Wörter auf Estnisch lernen 3 verschiedene Fälle: Nimetav, Omastav und Osastav. Das Foto stammt aus der Übung, in der ich versuche, Wörter zu schreiben, bei denen man eins (nimetav), zwei (erfordert osastav), viele sagen sollte – palju (osastav im Plural). Benutzen Esten diese Fälle in der Umgangssprache richtig? Auf dem Foto oben habe ich versucht, 20 Wörter zu erraten (wahrscheinlich habe ich eine Menge Fehler gemacht). Ich frage mich, ob Muttersprachler es richtig wissen, wenn ich es als Ausländer sage viele Worte anstatt viele Worte wäre es ein auffälliges Fehler?
Grüße
BEARBEITEN:
Ich verstehe absolut die ersten 14 Fälle und ihre Gründe. Ich versuche immer, dasselbe Wort in drei verschiedenen Fällen zu lernen (Nimetav, Omastav und Osastav). Ich frage mich, ob die falsche Verwendung des Osastav-Falls (Partitiv) im Plural ein erkennbarer Fehler ist oder nicht? Wie gesagt Worte anstatt Worteoder Sprichwort Studentenanstatt Studenten
https://i.redd.it/2453x1whaqeg1.jpeg
Von ScaredSoftware
9 Kommentare
Palju sõnad vs palju sõnu is noticeable difference. Are you ready for no sex and no future?
Second row, last one should be „lauseid“, didn’t read much past it.
It does come naturally. My kid is two and learning to speak and it is fun to hear how she messes up the words. Her most used is „minema“ atm. Mina minen when it should be mina lähen etc. Makes me think of how messed up our language is every single day and wonder how on earth did we (almost) all manage to make it work eventually.
You are already in better position than most of ruZZians here. Don’t worry about mistakes so much. Respect!
Yes, we use cases correctly when speaking, just like English speakers use prepositions correctly. Using an incorrect case is comparable to saying „I am in home“ instead of „I am at home“. Noticeable.
You’ve understood a bit wrong. In Estonian, there is no difference in counting two nouns or more than two (unlike Russian, for example). To count anything, you *always* say the number plus *singular partitive* (osastav), which is what you have in the second column. The third column is mostly nonsense and the rest appears to be plural partitive. So as an example: „Mul on kaks koera (singular partitive). Ma armastan oma koeri/koerasid (plural partitive).
The reason why you need to know these three cases is not because how they are used but because these are the only singular cases that you actually need to learn by heart, as there’s almost no regularity to them (there are actually about 70 different ways to form those cases). The other singular cases are pretty much always derived by adding the appropriate case ending to the *singular possessive* (omastav).
Plural is a bit more complicated because mostly you also form them the same way but you do need to know the plural partitive by heart as well, as it is also irregular. Also, and I’m really sorry about this, many plural cases have irregular short forms as well. For some words you almost always use the short forms (like I would always say „koeri“ instead of „koerasid“, even though both are grammatically correct), for some words you almost always use the long forms, and for some, both are used equally or it’s based on region. Unfortunately, I don’t think there is a way to tell.
kaks teadet, palju teateid;
kaks teadlast, palju teadlaseid;
kaks näidet, paljud näiteid;
kaks eelist, palju eeliseid;
kaks tõlki, palju tõlkijaid, tõlkisid;
kaks auhinda, palju auhindu;
kaks gruppi, palju gruppe
do English speakers know their irregular forms indeed or are they faking?
of course everybody knows his first language, however weird it may look.
you have made some mistakes indeed.
there are still more rules than exceptions even in Estonian, but you will mostly be understandable also speaking with mistakes
https://preview.redd.it/6fbekzvsiqeg1.png?width=480&format=png&auto=webp&s=f46942c338a242372a3b3c5a2bb5b94ac19a2173
You have made only 15 spelling errors. But otherwise getting there. Estonians mostly use 14 cases correctly, but we are very understanding if a foreigner uses them incorrectly.
Every word on your list can be used in 14 different cases + 14 cases in plural form.
I’m a foreigner who completed B1 level Estonian, and as far as I observe from the writings of my Estonian friends and colleagues and Estonian redditors here, they do know and use all these declensions correctly, even though there are billions of irregular declensions in Estonian. When I ask them how they manage to decline cases correctly, the common answers are “by heart, by feeling, naturally” and so on. Nothing else.
Fun fact: Most Estonians cannot explain Estonian grammar, except for professional Estonian teachers. When I mention some terms such as omastav, osastav, osasihitis, täissihitis, ma infinitiiv, da infinitiiv to them, they have no idea what they are, or when I ask when to use the genitive case and when to use the partitive case, I couldn’t get any proper explanation.
Estonians first want foreigners to speak Estonian. I always try to speak Estonian, but I’m not fluent and perfect like a native speaker of course. And I’m still getting negative reactions or they switch to English, because it seems they now expect us to speak as well as them. To be completely honest I doubt Estonians implore and support the integration of foreigners…
Sorry, I ranted and vented, and may have gone off the topic a bit.